[chirp_users] Tim at Yaesu Tech Support warns against Chirp, recommends RT Systems products
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp.... support of multiple computing platforms (Mac in particular!), multiple radios! The value is huge since what holds back many beginners is the difficulty of programming in the channels!
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Charles Stillman datademon@aol.com wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
No radios have EVER been permanently damaged during Chirp development. I bet he has absolutely zero evidence to support his claims.
Tom KD7LXL
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Tom Hayward esarfl@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Charles Stillman datademon@aol.com wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
No radios have EVER been permanently damaged during Chirp development. I bet he has absolutely zero evidence to support his claims.
By the way, if you use a program like portmon to monitor the data Chirp sends to the radio, you'll find it sends exactly the same thing as RT Systems software or a clone from an identical model radio.
Tom KD7LXL
I'm just speculating here as to what (if any) problems people might have reported to Yaesu. It certainly is possible to do damage with an inappropriate cable for example. Some people are quite willing to try the "blue smoke test" prior to reading the manual!
Charlie KC1S
On Oct 17, 2013, at 3:09 PM, Tom Hayward esarfl@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Tom Hayward esarfl@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Charles Stillman datademon@aol.com wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
No radios have EVER been permanently damaged during Chirp development. I bet he has absolutely zero evidence to support his claims.
By the way, if you use a program like portmon to monitor the data Chirp sends to the radio, you'll find it sends exactly the same thing as RT Systems software or a clone from an identical model radio.
Tom KD7LXL _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S
This is news to me I have been programming Yaesu Radios for several years using Chirp and never had a problem with any of the Radios. I have programmed a number of different types of Yaesu, ICOM, Kenwood, etc and the only time I have had a problem is if I did not read the radio first.
Allan R. Batteiger
On 10/17/2013 5:18 PM, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
I have used both program's and CHRIP won't damage the UV5R . The RT Systems software is 10 times easier to use. You can do so much more and quicker with RT. RT imports from Travelplus without having to jump through hoops like CHRIP makes you do. Phil KF6MXK On 10/17/2013 3:18 PM, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Thanks for your experience.
All we'll want for now is a standard channel set to copy to several radios in the group one time only. The cross-radio capability of Chirp makes it a perfect choice. Besides, the county-by-county repeater database looks more than adequate for our area. And... the price is right. Apparently the RT cables have gone proprietary, so I'll stick with more generic ones. The software takes a few minutes to transfer in a few hundred memories on my IC-91A but after that it seems simple to use. Perhaps other brands are harder to use.
Charlie KC1S
On Oct 17, 2013, at 7:00 PM, KF6MXK pcornyn@bak.rr.com wrote:
I have used both program's and CHRIP won't damage the UV5R . The RT Systems software is 10 times easier to use. You can do so much more and quicker with RT. RT imports from Travelplus without having to jump through hoops like CHRIP makes you do. Phil KF6MXK On 10/17/2013 3:18 PM, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
-- Sent From My Mancave Above Cable MP 358 Tehachapi _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Hi Charlie for your demo have a look to https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K4MDTZ2O4uV4kw10l3WukY_hrjr7kCAebdHX... may be you can find useful material there but remember it's a little outdated (last update was in may).
I think there's nothing I can add to the rest of discussion but let me say that I programmed my ft817 and ft857 "hundred" times during development of those modules and they are still alive.
73 de IZ3GME Marco
On 18/10/2013 00:18, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Whether the software has an effect on the Yaesu radios or not, the reality is, that for Mac users Chirp is the only solution since the RT software only works on Windows.
Works great so far on my VX-6R.
Wayne Ridley VE3LFB
On Friday, October 18, 2013 4:49 AM, IZ3GME Marco iz3gme.marco@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Charlie for your demo have a look to https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K4MDTZ2O4uV4kw10l3WukY_hrjr7kCAebdHX... may be you can find useful material there but remember it's a little outdated (last update was in may).
I think there's nothing I can add to the rest of discussion but let me say that I programmed my ft817 and ft857 "hundred" times during development of those modules and they are still alive.
73 de IZ3GME Marco
On 18/10/2013 00:18, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
_______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
And Linux... 73
DR On Oct 18, 2013 8:47 AM, "Wayne Ridley" ridleyww@yahoo.com wrote:
Whether the software has an effect on the Yaesu radios or not, the reality is, that for Mac users Chirp is the only solution since the RT software only works on Windows.
Works great so far on my VX-6R.
Wayne Ridley VE3LFB
On Friday, October 18, 2013 4:49 AM, IZ3GME Marco < iz3gme.marco@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Charlie for your demo have a look to
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K4MDTZ2O4uV4kw10l3WukY_hrjr7kCAebdHX... may be you can find useful material there but remember it's a little outdated (last update was in may).
I think there's nothing I can add to the rest of discussion but let me say that I programmed my ft817 and ft857 "hundred" times during development of those modules and they are still alive.
73 de IZ3GME Marco
On 18/10/2013 00:18, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I
have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to
do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
I might as well wet the fire plug, too. This being THE chirp discussion list, and most likely the greatest concentration of chirp users known to mankind, how many of you out there have fried eeproms using chirp ?
To fry an eeprom it would either require excessive voltage on the signal leads - caused by the interface along with poor design in the radio to even allow such to cause damage and having nothing to do with the software, or some serial data written to the WRONG memory locations - sort of like damaging flash code in the radio, and perhaps as serious as requiring a trip home for a re-flash.
As far as frying a chip - I sure have my doubts. Possibly a ground loop between a PC and the radio or something of that nature and not at all software related ?
My two ¢'s. steve nu5d
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Wayne Ridley ridleyww@yahoo.com wrote:
Whether the software has an effect on the Yaesu radios or not, the reality is, that for Mac users Chirp is the only solution since the RT software only works on Windows.
Works great so far on my VX-6R.
Wayne Ridley VE3LFB
On Friday, October 18, 2013 4:49 AM, IZ3GME Marco < iz3gme.marco@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Charlie for your demo have a look to
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K4MDTZ2O4uV4kw10l3WukY_hrjr7kCAebdHX... may be you can find useful material there but remember it's a little outdated (last update was in may).
I think there's nothing I can add to the rest of discussion but let me say that I programmed my ft817 and ft857 "hundred" times during development of those modules and they are still alive.
73 de IZ3GME Marco
On 18/10/2013 00:18, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I
have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to
do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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On 10/18/2013 9:34 AM, Steve Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
....Possibly a ground loop between a PC and the radio or something of that nature...
Maybe a good reason not to have the radio on a charger while programming???
Joe
On 10/18/2013 10:04 AM, Joe wrote:
On 10/18/2013 9:34 AM, Steve Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
....Possibly a ground loop between a PC and the radio or something of that nature...
Maybe a good reason not to have the radio on a charger while programming???
Note: You'd want to make sure the battery has a good charge before writing back to the radio, especially for clone mode radios like the Yaesus where most, if not all, of the EEPROM will be overwritten.
A little background, If the voltage drops too low when writing an EEPROM the data stored may not be correct. Most modern and well engineer battery operated systems including current microcontrollers with the EEPROM on the chip will have "brown-out" protection that will prevent writing when the supply voltage is too low.
As far as EEPROM write durability, Ian at DangerousPrototypes.com, built a board to test how many write cycles it would take before an EEPROM started failing. The tested EEPROM rated at a million write cycles, had over 11 million write cycles before a failure occurred.
http://dangerousprototypes.com/2010/06/07/flash-destroyer-dead-at-11-49-mill...
Good point. Many of us Mac users do set up a Windows partition via Fusion, Parallels, or another method. I have used that to run Icom's RS-91 programming software in the past. It worked fine, though not as convenient as Chirp running native on the Mac.
Charlie Stillman KC1S
On Oct 18, 2013, at 5:45 AM, Wayne Ridley ridleyww@yahoo.com wrote:
Whether the software has an effect on the Yaesu radios or not, the reality is, that for Mac users Chirp is the only solution since the RT software only works on Windows.
Works great so far on my VX-6R.
Wayne Ridley VE3LFB
On Friday, October 18, 2013 4:49 AM, IZ3GME Marco iz3gme.marco@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charlie for your demo have a look to https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1K4MDTZ2O4uV4kw10l3WukY_hrjr7kCAebdHX... may be you can find useful material there but remember it's a little outdated (last update was in may).
I think there's nothing I can add to the rest of discussion but let me say that I programmed my ft817 and ft857 "hundred" times during development of those modules and they are still alive.
73 de IZ3GME Marco
On 18/10/2013 00:18, Charles Stillman wrote:
I figured it would be all over the web if there were serious problems. I have no reason to doubt Tim's sincerity. Perhaps, someone involved with development could approach him to get more information about the supposed problems. I know if I had a problem, I'd be on this forum in a heartbeat.
I'll be demoing Chirp at our next HAM meeting here in Seattle so need to do my due diligence about what I'm recommending!
Charlie Stillman KC1S _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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Kickbacks from RTS sales to Yaesu? I've programmed my VX5, FT60, and FT8900 plenty of times with chirp, no problems. And like someone else suggested if there was a problem it will be all over the internet.
________________________________ From: Charles Stillman datademon@aol.com To: chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 6:02 PM Subject: [chirp_users] Tim at Yaesu Tech Support warns against Chirp, recommends RT Systems products
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp.... support of multiple computing platforms (Mac in particular!), multiple radios! The value is huge since what holds back many beginners is the difficulty of programming in the channels! _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios.
Heh, interesting. As Tom says, CHIRP sends exactly the same content to the radio as does a clone or programing operation from RTSystems. The way almost all Yaesu radios are designed, you write the whole image every time (can't get away with doing anything less, actually). So, the exact same number of bytes are written to the radio, in the same order, as using either other tool.
The radios themselves write to the eeprom every single time you turn the VFO knob a single click in either direction. Think about how many writes that turns into for a trip up and down the band looking for a contact.
IMHO, before CHIRP, keeping all my radios up to date was a lot harder and a lot less fun. I definitely program my radios more now, but I'm still a few orders of magnitude away from doing it often enough to be wearing out the eeprom doing it :)
I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio?
No. If the radio was at risk for permanent failure due to a failure to follow the instructions for programming that would be -- a pretty sorry design for a radio :)
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
That seems kinda silly. Unlike the other manufacturers that actually provide software for their radios, Yaesu relies on RTSystems to provide a product that lets people program their radios. If RTSystems went out of business tomorrow, Yaesu owners would have no commercial way to program their radio(s) from their computer. So, call me crazy, but there's definitely a dependent relationship there :)
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp....
Be sure to tell them! If Yaesu wanted to engage and tell me how sending the same data over the same cable to the radio is "burning out eeproms" I'd be happy to address it. Further, if users all let know Yaesu that they would buy more radios if Yaesu would contribute hardware for development work, we could certainly improve the level of support we have for those radios.
Vote with your wallet! :)
Thanks for the reassurances!
And I did vote twice with my wallet {grin}. I not only bought 2 Icom handhelds a few years back, but I also sent a contribution to Chirp earlier today! Thanks for making our radio lives better!!
Charlie Stillman KC1S
On Oct 17, 2013, at 3:42 PM, Dan Smith dsmith@danplanet.com wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios.
Heh, interesting. As Tom says, CHIRP sends exactly the same content to the radio as does a clone or programing operation from RTSystems. The way almost all Yaesu radios are designed, you write the whole image every time (can't get away with doing anything less, actually). So, the exact same number of bytes are written to the radio, in the same order, as using either other tool.
The radios themselves write to the eeprom every single time you turn the VFO knob a single click in either direction. Think about how many writes that turns into for a trip up and down the band looking for a contact.
IMHO, before CHIRP, keeping all my radios up to date was a lot harder and a lot less fun. I definitely program my radios more now, but I'm still a few orders of magnitude away from doing it often enough to be wearing out the eeprom doing it :)
I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio?
No. If the radio was at risk for permanent failure due to a failure to follow the instructions for programming that would be -- a pretty sorry design for a radio :)
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
That seems kinda silly. Unlike the other manufacturers that actually provide software for their radios, Yaesu relies on RTSystems to provide a product that lets people program their radios. If RTSystems went out of business tomorrow, Yaesu owners would have no commercial way to program their radio(s) from their computer. So, call me crazy, but there's definitely a dependent relationship there :)
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp....
Be sure to tell them! If Yaesu wanted to engage and tell me how sending the same data over the same cable to the radio is "burning out eeproms" I'd be happy to address it. Further, if users all let know Yaesu that they would buy more radios if Yaesu would contribute hardware for development work, we could certainly improve the level of support we have for those radios.
Vote with your wallet! :)
-- Dan Smith www.danplanet.com KK7DS
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
hehe if you decide to protest by giving up your yaesu radios then send them to me :P i would love to have a ft-817nd to play with
On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Dan Smith dsmith@danplanet.com wrote:
I also sent a contribution to Chirp earlier today!
Yes, and thanks for that!
-- Dan Smith www.danplanet.com KK7DS
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
If Yaesu staff are telling people that their rigs wear out easily from programming them using the protocols as laid out in their manuals, I think I might NOT buy a Yaesu again. Shame, I am rather fond of Yaesu rigs and I have the job of nominating what HT's we get when the local security group replace all there Motorola's for the next generation handies. That's about 130 radio's.
Dennis Smith M1DLG
On 17 October 2013 23:42, Dan Smith dsmith@danplanet.com wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios.
Heh, interesting. As Tom says, CHIRP sends exactly the same content to the radio as does a clone or programing operation from RTSystems. The way almost all Yaesu radios are designed, you write the whole image every time (can't get away with doing anything less, actually). So, the exact same number of bytes are written to the radio, in the same order, as using either other tool.
The radios themselves write to the eeprom every single time you turn the VFO knob a single click in either direction. Think about how many writes that turns into for a trip up and down the band looking for a contact.
IMHO, before CHIRP, keeping all my radios up to date was a lot harder and a lot less fun. I definitely program my radios more now, but I'm still a few orders of magnitude away from doing it often enough to be wearing out the eeprom doing it :)
I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio?
No. If the radio was at risk for permanent failure due to a failure to follow the instructions for programming that would be -- a pretty sorry design for a radio :)
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
That seems kinda silly. Unlike the other manufacturers that actually provide software for their radios, Yaesu relies on RTSystems to provide a product that lets people program their radios. If RTSystems went out of business tomorrow, Yaesu owners would have no commercial way to program their radio(s) from their computer. So, call me crazy, but there's definitely a dependent relationship there :)
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp....
Be sure to tell them! If Yaesu wanted to engage and tell me how sending the same data over the same cable to the radio is "burning out eeproms" I'd be happy to address it. Further, if users all let know Yaesu that they would buy more radios if Yaesu would contribute hardware for development work, we could certainly improve the level of support we have for those radios.
Vote with your wallet! :)
-- Dan Smith www.danplanet.com KK7DS
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Hence the term of "Brick the Rig", I am not sure but maybe it is possible with any software. I do remember talk of this sort on other rigs as well.
Marty kd8bj On 10/17/2013 5:02 PM, Charles Stillman wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp.... support of multiple computing platforms (Mac in particular!), multiple radios! The value is huge since what holds back many beginners is the difficulty of programming in the channels! _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Tim knows not of what he speaks...
John K3NXU http://www.miklor.com
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com [mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com] On Behalf Of Charles Stillman Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 6:03 PM To: chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_users] Tim at Yaesu Tech Support warns against Chirp, recommends RT Systems products
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp.... support of multiple computing platforms (Mac in particular!), multiple radios! The value is huge since what holds back many beginners is the difficulty of programming in the channels! _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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My VX-3r failed while chirp was programming it. I thought at the time the battery level was too low and it just turned off but after plugging in and charging the battery I found the radio could no longer power on.
I sent the radio into Yaesu saying what happened and asking them to fix it. They replaced some tiny capacitor or something and sent the radio back fully functional.
In my opinion, this was ENTIRELY coincidental, but I'm adding my story to the list because it is very possible Tim is talking about me.
Personally, I don't see how one serial programmer could harm the radio any more than another, or how a serial programmer could harm the radio at all. Fun fact, chirp is slower than the RT Systems software to program so clearly it isn't like we are overheating some component by talking to fast or anything stupid like that.
-Rick WZ3RO Farina
On 10/17/2013 06:02 PM, Charles Stillman wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp.... support of multiple computing platforms (Mac in particular!), multiple radios! The value is huge since what holds back many beginners is the difficulty of programming in the channels! _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users .
Rick,
That is interesting. I would be curious about the cable you were using when you programmed the VX-3R. Also, how much of a speed difference was there between RT Systems and chirp?
-- Rob Campbell KG6HUM
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Rick Farina sidhayn@gmail.com wrote:
My VX-3r failed while chirp was programming it. I thought at the time the battery level was too low and it just turned off but after plugging in and charging the battery I found the radio could no longer power on.
I sent the radio into Yaesu saying what happened and asking them to fix it. They replaced some tiny capacitor or something and sent the radio back fully functional.
In my opinion, this was ENTIRELY coincidental, but I'm adding my story to the list because it is very possible Tim is talking about me.
Personally, I don't see how one serial programmer could harm the radio any more than another, or how a serial programmer could harm the radio at all. Fun fact, chirp is slower than the RT Systems software to program so clearly it isn't like we are overheating some component by talking to fast or anything stupid like that.
-Rick WZ3RO Farina
On 10/17/2013 06:02 PM, Charles Stillman wrote:
Tim at Yaesu tech support says that Chirp "burns out" EEPROMS on Yaesu
radios. He says that results in the radios locking up. It was not clear whether he was saying that the EEPROM was destroyed or just programmed into a state that the radio would no longer work. I'm guessing that this might have been a problem during Chirp development and is no longer the case. I see that there are several steps involved in programming the Yaesu radios with Chirp. Does failure to follow the steps precisely create a risk to the usability of the radio? Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Tim assures me that he makes no money by recommending RT Systems stuff.
I sure appreciate the universality of Chirp.... support of multiple
computing platforms (Mac in particular!), multiple radios! The value is huge since what holds back many beginners is the difficulty of programming in the channels!
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users .
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Personally, I don't see how one serial programmer could harm the radio any more than another, or how a serial programmer could harm the radio at all.
Yeah, definitely. Not a lot of people realize this, but we are *not* writing firmware to the radio, but rather writing a table of things for the radio to look at when you select a particular channel. This process should be absolutely bulletproof, and a full reset of the device should always undo any of the things we're writing to it. If it's not, you don't want to own that radio anyway.
I'll note that Yaesu radios are the *worst* about verifying the incoming image of all the major manufacturers. Most of the $30 chinese radios do as good a job (or in some cases, better) than the $300+ Yaesu radios. Even with that, a reset has always been able to resolve any state of confusion I've been able to get one into.
Fun fact, chirp is slower than the RT Systems software to program so clearly it isn't like we are overheating some component by talking to fast or anything stupid like that.
Yeah, good point. This is an artifact of the fact that CHIRP uses a single routine (or variation of it) to program the VX-series handhelds. Yaesus implement no flow control on the line, and they can't accept data at the full line speed (unlike Icoms, Kenwoods, Alincos and all the Chinese radios I've seen). This means that we end up writing data to the radio at the lowest common speed that all of them will accept, which is slower than an application tuned specifically for one model would.
Chirp also writes much slower to the Anytone AT-5888UV than the factory software.
One thing about their cord construction is it is using two wires only. Is there no error correction for the data or is it being written in half duplex or just how exactly does
serial data flow over two wires. ?
________________________________ From: Dan Smith dsmith@danplanet.com To: Discussion of CHIRP chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [chirp_users] Tim at Yaesu Tech Support warns against Chirp, recommends RT Systems products
Fun fact, chirp is slower than the RT Systems software to program so clearly it isn't like we are overheating some component by talking to fast or anything stupid like that.
Yeah, good point. This is an artifact of the fact that CHIRP uses a single routine (or variation of it) to program the VX-series handhelds. Yaesus implement no flow control on the line, and they can't accept data at the full line speed (unlike Icoms, Kenwoods, Alincos and all the Chinese radios I've seen). This means that we end up writing data to the radio at the lowest common speed that all of them will accept, which is slower than an application tuned specifically for one model would.
One thing about their cord construction is it is using two wires only.
More than half of all the radios that chirp supports use two-wire communication (all Icoms, Alincos, most Yaesus).
Is there no error correction for the data
What does error correction have to do with how many wires are being used? No radio (or serial device) I've ever seen uses actual error *correction* over the line. However, several do employ error *detection* through the use of checksums. All Icom radios provide this, but only a sprinkling of the other radios do.
or is it being written in half duplex or just how exactly does serial data flow over two wires. ?
The TX and RX lines are tied together, which means that when either side transmits, they see their own data reflected back. It is indeed half duplex, and requires either end to "chew up" these echoes in order to read a subsequent response from the other side. It's a fairly common thing for simple serial devices. All the CAT bus radios do it this way, for example. If you have a big HF rig that communicates with an amp or an antenna tuner, it's doing the same thing.
It's kinda funny to spend $60 for an OEM programming cable that only has two wires inside, huh? :)
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My VX-3r failed while chirp was programming it. I thought at the time the battery level was too low and it just turned off but after plugging in and charging the battery I found the radio could no longer power on.
I had a similar experience with the same model. Like you I think it was coincidental and had nothing to do with chirp. I chalked it up to static discharge.
The charging system has some inherent protection, but I don't know about the serial port. Also, the (deserved!) popularity of chirp may make a it seem like there are more chirp-based issues when proportionally, they are the same.
participants (19)
-
Allan R. Batteiger -
Charles Stillman -
D.J.J. Ring, Jr. -
Dan Smith -
Dennis Smith -
IZ3GME Marco -
Joe -
Joe Kirby -
John LaMartina -
KF6MXK -
Marty Hartwell -
Milton Hywatt -
Rick Farina -
Rob Campbell -
Robert Terzi -
Steve Bosshard (NU5D) -
Tom Hayward -
Trinity -
Wayne Ridley