[chirp_users] New blind ham trying to use Chirp
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky
Jason,
Please see below which is a copy and paste from the FAQ:
——
I'm a blind ham. Can I use CHIRP with a screen reader? CHIRP uses a graphical toolkit called GTK. This lets it run on all platforms unchanged. Since GTK is native on Linux, screen reading software for Linux will work with CHIRP without any trouble. On MacOS and Windows, GTK is not native and thus screen readers on these platforms will see CHIRP as a blank window. This cannot and will not be changed, as it would mean writing CHIRP three times, once for each platform, or dropping support for MacOS and Windows entirely. Please do not ask about this issue as it has been covered many, many times on the mailing list!
----
73’s,
Jim K2SON
--- Jim McCorison Orcas Island, WA
On Nov 26, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Thank you Jim. So Chirp won't work with my screen reader. Ugh! Do you know of any other programs that will?
On 11/26/14, Jim McCorison jimmcc@mccorison.com wrote:
Jason,
Please see below which is a copy and paste from the FAQ:
——
I'm a blind ham. Can I use CHIRP with a screen reader? CHIRP uses a graphical toolkit called GTK. This lets it run on all platforms unchanged. Since GTK is native on Linux, screen reading software for Linux will work with CHIRP without any trouble. On MacOS and Windows, GTK is not native and thus screen readers on these platforms will see CHIRP as a blank window. This cannot and will not be changed, as it would mean writing CHIRP three times, once for each platform, or dropping support for MacOS and Windows entirely. Please do not ask about this issue as it has been covered many, many times on the mailing list!
73’s,
Jim K2SON
Jim McCorison Orcas Island, WA
On Nov 26, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
This would depend on the radio that you intend to program and what software is available to program it.
One possibility might be to "burn" CHIRP Live CD to a USB flash drive and boot from it. Then it might be possible to install and use the Orca screen reader with CHIRP.
Jim KC9HI
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Jim. So Chirp won't work with my screen reader. Ugh! Do you know of any other programs that will?
On 11/26/14, Jim McCorison jimmcc@mccorison.com wrote:
Jason,
Please see below which is a copy and paste from the FAQ:
——
I'm a blind ham. Can I use CHIRP with a screen reader? CHIRP uses a graphical toolkit called GTK. This lets it run on all platforms unchanged. Since GTK is native on Linux, screen reading software for Linux will work with CHIRP without any trouble. On MacOS and Windows, GTK is not native and thus screen readers on these platforms will see CHIRP as a blank window. This cannot and will not be changed, as it would mean writing CHIRP three times, once for each platform, or dropping support for MacOS and Windows entirely. Please do not ask about this issue as it has been covered many, many times on the mailing list!
73’s,
Jim K2SON
Jim McCorison Orcas Island, WA
On Nov 26, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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On Wed, 26 Nov 2014, Jason Polansky wrote:
Thank you Jim. So Chirp won't work with my screen reader. Ugh! Do you know of any other programs that will?
Jason, there are ways to use Chirp, though not as easily or directly. Ham Radio and Vision has a page that covers using Chirp for blind and vision impaired hams. In a nutshell, you use a spreadsheet, such as Excel or OpenOffice Calc, to enter the details, then transfer that into Chirp. Link: http://www.hamradioandvision.com/chirp-channel-editing-program/
Another option would be to use a bootable thumb drive with a live linux distribution on it, such as Puppy Linux SpeakPup (which is customized for blind and low vision users), or any other suitable distro. If you want or need help pursuing this, email me off-list at tesla@kiwigeek.com and I'll see what we can come up with.
73's, Shaun, K0PER
"The world we live in is but thickened light" - Ralph Waldo Emerson ________________________________________________________________________ | ___ __ ___ | "If you live to be a hundred, I want to | | / / / / /| | live to be a hundred minus one day, | | / /-- `-. / /-| | So I never have to live without you" | | / /__ ___//__ / | | -- Winnie the Pooh -- | | @ kiwigeek.com | | `------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Jason- I think you've gotten more specific and better answers, but you may also be able to apply a more general solution. If you can do a screen capture, or print, to a PDF file, several applications including the full version of Adobe Acrobat will do OCR from those files.
And the resulting file is a PDF file that has been converted back into readable text.
That might be a bit of a long kludge for you, but if something along those lines works, it should work with any application, not just CHIRP, that has similar problems.
Good luck. --Red
Well, as a fellow BLIND ham, I can tell you chirp is not accessible with jaws and windows. It is also not accessible with voiceover in OS 10. About the only operating system or you're going to have even a modicum of accessibility is a boon to Lenix. All other solutions are off the table. Wish I could be of more help, but developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important. – Eric
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Eric,
This has been discussed over and over and over. Are you willing to fund the not inconsiderable development dollars required to rewrite Chirp in different languages for each operating system and then to maintain it? Are you willing to pay a license fee, probably not cheap when amortized across the number of license vs development dollars, to underwrite this effort? This is a free program made readily available to all. Whether or not the "developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important” isn’t the issue. The issue is that it costs time and money to develop and support an application. One that is provided free of charge is going to be limited in what it can provide simply as a matter of economics. I’m not insensitive to your issues, but I am aware of the real world economic factors involved.
73’s, Jim K2SON
--- Jim McCorison Orcas Island, WA
On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, as a fellow BLIND ham, I can tell you chirp is not accessible with jaws and windows. It is also not accessible with voiceover in OS 10. About the only operating system or you're going to have even a modicum of accessibility is a boon to Lenix. All other solutions are off the table. Wish I could be of more help, but developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important. – Eric
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
the last time we had this discussion, I offered some links to how accessibility could be included. you basically told me not supported and made the claim about having to maintain 3 separate code bases. I have had conversations with other Python coders (including one that happens to be the Sr. Systems infrastructure Engineer for Ebay) and all of them have stated the following (which is paraphrased): 1. you can maintain a single codebase and use differing compiler flags for the OS environment you want 2. the accessible interface elements are available in python and are standardized to be used across multiple platforms (take a look at Utorrent). 3 the only real mods need to be changed to the interface itself, not the core program.
Now, as for my financing anything, that is really far fetched until I can gain reasonable employment (of which I am in a training program and work adjustment internship now).
now, I am not a coder currently (my IT skills are specialized elsewhere), but as soon as I can gain meaningful employment, I intend to change that with some part time courses in programming languages (such as python, C# and C++. SInce I am also pushing 50 years old here, it might become a moot point for me to even try. Still, I would rather learn a little than go through life having to pick the brains of others.
now, you can take a look at empowermentzone.com for some of the info, and I will see where there are other sources (and there are). now, I should apologize if my tone here seems rather abrupt, but I have had to deal with the after effects of 2 traumatic brain injuries (the last of which damaged my visual cortex). I am not using this as an excuse to garner pity, I am using this with the purpose of providing some understanding of how I interact with others.
Anyway, I have strayed from the subject and need to stop now before this degenerates into an argument.
Now, one of the others in here has offered a possible work around (by getting the data from the radio and saving it as a CSV, then importing into Excel). That can work except for the lack of support for any pulldown menus in the windows version using a screen reader
The last time I tried this, I used the linux version of chirp to try and save the radio data. unfortunately, because of an unlabeled button that I couldn't see, the save failed with an unhandled exception error. I am still trying to figure that one out and when my sighted assistant comes by next week, I can have them look at the screen and see where that control is. Then I can try that method out and report on how well it works (in theory, it should work without a hitch).
anyway, thanks for taking the time to consider my response here.
-eric
On Nov 26, 2014, at 1:51 PM, Jim McCorison wrote:
Eric,
This has been discussed over and over and over. Are you willing to fund the not inconsiderable development dollars required to rewrite Chirp in different languages for each operating system and then to maintain it? Are you willing to pay a license fee, probably not cheap when amortized across the number of license vs development dollars, to underwrite this effort? This is a free program made readily available to all. Whether or not the "developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important” isn’t the issue. The issue is that it costs time and money to develop and support an application. One that is provided free of charge is going to be limited in what it can provide simply as a matter of economics. I’m not insensitive to your issues, but I am aware of the real world economic factors involved.
73’s, Jim K2SON
Jim McCorison Orcas Island, WA
On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, as a fellow BLIND ham, I can tell you chirp is not accessible with jaws and windows. It is also not accessible with voiceover in OS 10. About the only operating system or you're going to have even a modicum of accessibility is a boon to Lenix. All other solutions are off the table. Wish I could be of more help, but developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important. – Eric
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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Guys, show some respect.
Happy Thanks Giving to all friendly HAMs.
Mats
On Nov 26, 2014, at 2:51 PM, Jim McCorison wrote:
Eric,
This has been discussed over and over and over. Are you willing to fund the not inconsiderable development dollars required to rewrite Chirp in different languages for each operating system and then to maintain it? Are you willing to pay a license fee, probably not cheap when amortized across the number of license vs development dollars, to underwrite this effort? This is a free program made readily available to all. Whether or not the "developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important” isn’t the issue. The issue is that it costs time and money to develop and support an application. One that is provided free of charge is going to be limited in what it can provide simply as a matter of economics. I’m not insensitive to your issues, but I am aware of the real world economic factors involved.
73’s, Jim K2SON
Jim McCorison Orcas Island, WA
On Nov 26, 2014, at 12:24 PM, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, as a fellow BLIND ham, I can tell you chirp is not accessible with jaws and windows. It is also not accessible with voiceover in OS 10. About the only operating system or you're going to have even a modicum of accessibility is a boon to Lenix. All other solutions are off the table. Wish I could be of more help, but developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important. – Eric
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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Thank you for your responses. I read the information about creating a CSV file, and it seems like you have !g to the file menu in Chirp and hit new. My prom is that Chirp isn't even letting me use the keyboard commands to get to the file menu. Does anyone know how to do a screen capture with JAWS. I know how to OCR. Eric, since you're a blind ham yourself, how did you program your radio?
On 11/26/14, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, as a fellow BLIND ham, I can tell you chirp is not accessible with jaws and windows. It is also not accessible with voiceover in OS 10. About the only operating system or you're going to have even a modicum of accessibility is a boon to Lenix. All other solutions are off the table. Wish I could be of more help, but developer doesn't seem to think that excess abilities all that important. – Eric
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35, Jason Polansky jaedpo96@gmail.com wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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Jason, you can run chirp from a USB stick installed Linux (ubuntu is probably the best for this). Just be aware that some of the interface elements for chirp on Linux may not be labeled quite right (or at least logically IMHO).
depending on the radio you have, you might have to check into RT Systems software. they charge $49 and you get the whole package (cable, software). They have also made their software compatible with NVDA (they had some problems with how jaws parses the video buffer).
-eric . On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Jason Polansky wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
I have a Wouxun Kg-uvd1p radio. I don't know anything about Linux. Is it expensive to install? I might have to try RT Systems software if it works with Wouxun radios. Wouxun has its own software, but I had trou opening the zipped exe file and heard that Chirp is better.
On 11/26/14, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Jason, you can run chirp from a USB stick installed Linux (ubuntu is probably the best for this). Just be aware that some of the interface elements for chirp on Linux may not be labeled quite right (or at least logically IMHO).
depending on the radio you have, you might have to check into RT Systems software. they charge $49 and you get the whole package (cable, software). They have also made their software compatible with NVDA (they had some problems with how jaws parses the video buffer).
-eric . On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Jason Polansky wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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Linux is a free download. there is an ubuntu accessibility site that can help you get started: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility
Hopefully this helps. I run this from a bootable USB stick on my macbook. its a lot easier than trying to boot directly onto a separate partition using the firmware boot screen.
-eric
On Nov 26, 2014, at 3:24 PM, Jason Polansky wrote:
I have a Wouxun Kg-uvd1p radio. I don't know anything about Linux. Is it expensive to install? I might have to try RT Systems software if it works with Wouxun radios. Wouxun has its own software, but I had trou opening the zipped exe file and heard that Chirp is better.
On 11/26/14, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Jason, you can run chirp from a USB stick installed Linux (ubuntu is probably the best for this). Just be aware that some of the interface elements for chirp on Linux may not be labeled quite right (or at least logically IMHO).
depending on the radio you have, you might have to check into RT Systems software. they charge $49 and you get the whole package (cable, software). They have also made their software compatible with NVDA (they had some problems with how jaws parses the video buffer).
-eric . On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Jason Polansky wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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Jason,
For blind hams using screen-reading software to access their computer, almost any radio-programming software works better than chirp! Your first attempt for any model radio should be the radio manufacturer's software. Remember, most sighted people have no clue about the difficulties faced by blind users of computers.
Best wishes!
73 Bob AD8RJ
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Polansky" jaedpo96@gmail.com To: "Discussion of CHIRP" chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [chirp_users] New blind ham trying to use Chirp
I have a Wouxun Kg-uvd1p radio. I don't know anything about Linux. Is it expensive to install? I might have to try RT Systems software if it works with Wouxun radios. Wouxun has its own software, but I had trou opening the zipped exe file and heard that Chirp is better.
On 11/26/14, Eric Oyen eric.oyen@gmail.com wrote:
Jason, you can run chirp from a USB stick installed Linux (ubuntu is probably the best for this). Just be aware that some of the interface elements for chirp on Linux may not be labeled quite right (or at least logically IMHO).
depending on the radio you have, you might have to check into RT Systems software. they charge $49 and you get the whole package (cable, software). They have also made their software compatible with NVDA (they had some problems with how jaws parses the video buffer).
-eric . On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:35 AM, Jason Polansky wrote:
Hello chirp users! My name is Jason Polansky 'Kc3DYC'. I just received my ham radio technician class license and learned about Chirp from my instructor. I am blind and use the JAWS screen reader on a windows 7 computer. After downloading Chirp and opening it, JAWS was not reading anything. Pressing the alt key didn't take me to the menus as it does with most programs. Can anybody help. Thank you Jason Polansky _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
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participants (8)
-
Bob J -
Eric Oyen -
Jason Polansky -
Jim McCorison -
Jim Unroe -
Red -
Roos G Mats -
Shaun