[chirp_users] Programming Arcshell-5
Best wishes from a Noob,
I am a FireWise neighborhood council member in a rural, high-risk forested area (70 miles from the Paradise Fire) of northern California. Several neighbors and I want to set up a backup evacuation radio notification system for our neighborhood in the event that power (lose cable internet and VOIP phone service) and cell towers are down (the local tower burnt last year during an event). And we have spotty cell coverage at best. We found the best-seller Arcshells on Amazon are powerful and reach through our hilly neighborhood OK. But I understand that 1. The devices are not FCC approved; 2. Antennae is removable; 3. Stock programming is a mix of FRS and GMRS frequencies. Fire chief has given go ahead for us to use them if we don’t interfere with any of the EMS, police, and fire frequencies. The stock frequencies programmed in the Arcshell AR-5 are indeed different than all the official ones used. But some neighbors want the radios reprogrammed so they are strictly only using FRS frequencies. I’ve been able to query and download the memory from an arcshell, and I believe I have figured out how to save a modified memory profile to a file so that it could uploaded to all units. Questions: 1. Using the chirp edit function can I just go ahead and change all channels’ frequencies to strictly FRS permitted ones? 2. Do I need to change any of the other settings like Tone Mode, Tonesql, DTCS Code, etc, or can they just remain as is? Thanks for your knowledgeable help! Jonathan
Jonathan,
As you said, this is technically a violation of FCC rules since these radios are not approved for FRS (for various reasons). With that said...
In CHIRP, if you click *File > Open stock config* you'll see an option there: *US FRS and GMRS channels*
That will have all the settings you need. FRS doesn't use Tones or DTCS Codes by default (although you can). FRS can go up to 2 watts now on some channels (a good chart is here: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2006/07/frs_and_gmrs_frequencies.html) so if you only program those 2W channels in and set your power to LOW (1 Watt) then you'll at least be within the legal frequency and power range for FRS (even if the radio itself isn't legal). If you use the 1/2 Watt channels then even on LOW you'll be using more power than you're supposed to.
So, basic order of steps: 1) download your factory config from each radio (I would mark them with a number so you can keep the files matched up to the specific radio - radios, even in the same shipment, can have different firmware and you should only apply a config back to a radio based on the factory image) 2) copy that factory image to a safe place as a backup 3) open the FRS stock config like I noted above 4) select the lines you want from that file and copy them 5) move back to your image file you downloaded from the radio and paste in the lines you copied from the FRS file 6) Save As to another file name (if you're still on that factory image file you need to keep in a same place) 7) upload to radio
I can provide more detail if that doesn't get you what you need, but it sounds like you're getting a good understanding of Chirp already.
Also, I'd recommend at least some in your neighborhood consider a GMRS license. Then a few of you could use higher wattage and could even set up a repeater. FRS and GMRS share frequencies, so you could all communicate with each other on the same frequencies, it's just that your FRS users would be more limited in power (not wouldn't be allowed on the repeater). Note (again, covering my bases) that the Arcshell isn't legal on GMRS either. Of course in an emergency that isn't as relevant, but it is also important to practice before the emergency. You and your neighbors could go even further and start getting ham licenses which would open up a lot more options. A neighborhood I've heard of that has done this is here: https://www.echolakecommunity.org/news-events/gmrs-radio and https://www.echolakecommunity.org/local/lost-echo-hams
Good luck! -Tycen
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 4:54 PM Jonathan Pierce jp1776@gmail.com wrote:
Best wishes from a Noob,
I am a FireWise neighborhood council member in a rural, high-risk forested area (70 miles from the Paradise Fire) of northern California. Several neighbors and I want to set up a backup evacuation radio notification system for our neighborhood in the event that power (lose cable internet and VOIP phone service) and cell towers are down (the local tower burnt last year during an event). And we have spotty cell coverage at best.
We found the best-seller Arcshells on Amazon are powerful and reach through our hilly neighborhood OK. But I understand that 1. The devices are not FCC approved; 2. Antennae is removable; 3. Stock programming is a mix of FRS and GMRS frequencies. Fire chief has given go ahead for us to use them if we don’t interfere with any of the EMS, police, and fire frequencies. The stock frequencies programmed in the Arcshell AR-5 are indeed different than all the official ones used.
But some neighbors want the radios reprogrammed so they are strictly only using FRS frequencies. I’ve been able to query and download the memory from an arcshell, and I believe I have figured out how to save a modified memory profile to a file so that it could uploaded to all units.
Questions: 1. Using the chirp edit function can I just go ahead and change all channels’ frequencies to strictly FRS permitted ones? 2. Do I need to change any of the other settings like Tone Mode, Tonesql, DTCS Code, etc, or can they just remain as is?
Thanks for your knowledgeable help!
Jonathan _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Tycen at tycen@tycen.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
Just a super-valuable, prompt, and thorough discussion!!
Thank you so much, and I am on to it. We’re looking at a bad fire season; this could save lives.
Jonathan x-apple-data-detectors://0
Typen, your last email about programming the Arcshell units was very much appreciated.
I had unsubscribed from the user forum last week as I found that the advice given enabled me (I thought!) to reprogram several units without a hitch. I changed all the channels to the first 16 FRS-approved channels, but I did not lower the power setting for those permitted only for 0.5 W on the first iteration as I just wanted to ascertain if I had done things otherwise correctly. No other program settings were changed before uploading the new settings to the units. Indeed, the two units functioned OK it seemed until I tried to use the ‘scanning’ function assigned in the OEM programming to Channel 16. This had worked under the previous OEM programming. I found that it would not work on either unit after changing the channels, even though they could send and receive on all the other channels properly. I want the scanning facility preserved on all the units so I re subscribed to the Users Forum in hope of a solution.
I understand from you and your colleagues that this unit is still not FCC approved and will never be unless certain changes are made and the units are then officially approved. Rest assured they won’t be given into the hands of 3 years olds to talk on the beach, but only used briefly and hopefully rarely in the event of an impending fire disaster in our community with some frail neighbors who need checking on if cell towers and power lines are down (which has happened before). I appreciate all you guys’ expert advice and I trust you will still impart whatever guidance needed here to bring this feature back.
Thanking you, Jonathan
I think everyone has missed JP's point.
In an emergency, a person can use anything on any band to secure assistance if life is being threatened. Terry, KI0RE
On 5/25/20 7:42 PM, JP wrote:
Typen, your last email about programming the Arcshell units was very much appreciated.
I had unsubscribed from the user forum last week as I found that the advice given enabled me (I thought!) to reprogram several units without a hitch. I changed all the channels to the first 16 FRS-approved channels, but I did not lower the power setting for those permitted only for 0.5 W on the first iteration as I just wanted to ascertain if I had done things otherwise correctly. No other program settings were changed before uploading the new settings to the units. Indeed, the two units functioned OK it seemed until I tried to use the ‘scanning’ function assigned in the OEM programming to Channel 16. This had worked under the previous OEM programming. I found that it would not work on either unit after changing the channels, even though they could send and receive on all the other channels properly. I want the scanning facility preserved on all the units so I re subscribed to the Users Forum in hope of a solution.
I understand from you and your colleagues that this unit is still not FCC approved and will never be unless certain changes are made and the units are then officially approved. Rest assured they won’t be given into the hands of 3 years olds to talk on the beach, but only used briefly and hopefully rarely in the event of an impending fire disaster in our community with some frail neighbors who need checking on if cell towers and power lines are down (which has happened before). I appreciate all you guys’ expert advice and I trust you will still impart whatever guidance needed here to bring this feature back.
Thanking you, Jonathan
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Terry at tmoore@1791.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
If you are going to use FRS frequencies, just get FRS radios. They are cheap enough. Especially for older, non ham licensed people. Less confusing, also.
Remember, there cannot be ANY other legal method of comms to use the ‘emergency’ rule. If I recall properly, that rule ONLY shows up under amateur rules, non of the other services, as their radios cannot be otherwise programmed.
Jardy Dawson WA7JRD
Message sent by....Oh look!! Pretty lights!!
On May 25, 2020, at 18:50, Terry Moore tmoore@1791.com wrote:
I think everyone has missed JP's point.
In an emergency, a person can use anything on any band to secure assistance if life is being threatened. Terry, KI0RE
On 5/25/20 7:42 PM, JP wrote: Typen, your last email about programming the Arcshell units was very much appreciated.
I had unsubscribed from the user forum last week as I found that the advice given enabled me (I thought!) to reprogram several units without a hitch. I changed all the channels to the first 16 FRS-approved channels, but I did not lower the power setting for those permitted only for 0.5 W on the first iteration as I just wanted to ascertain if I had done things otherwise correctly. No other program settings were changed before uploading the new settings to the units. Indeed, the two units functioned OK it seemed until I tried to use the ‘scanning’ function assigned in the OEM programming to Channel 16. This had worked under the previous OEM programming. I found that it would not work on either unit after changing the channels, even though they could send and receive on all the other channels properly. I want the scanning facility preserved on all the units so I re subscribed to the Users Forum in hope of a solution.
I understand from you and your colleagues that this unit is still not FCC approved and will never be unless certain changes are made and the units are then officially approved. Rest assured they won’t be given into the hands of 3 years olds to talk on the beach, but only used briefly and hopefully rarely in the event of an impending fire disaster in our community with some frail neighbors who need checking on if cell towers and power lines are down (which has happened before). I appreciate all you guys’ expert advice and I trust you will still impart whatever guidance needed here to bring this feature back.
Thanking you, Jonathan
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Terry at tmoore@1791.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Jardy at jardy72@yahoo.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
I'll say with no hesitation, that if there is an public emergency, I couldn't care less what the FCC thinks. Glenn
----- Original Message ----- From: Jardy via chirp_users To: Discussion of CHIRP Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [chirp_users] Programming Arcshell-5
If you are going to use FRS frequencies, just get FRS radios. They are cheap enough. Especially for older, non ham licensed people. Less confusing, also.
Remember, there cannot be ANY other legal method of comms to use the ‘emergency’ rule. If I recall properly, that rule ONLY shows up under amateur rules, non of the other services, as their radios cannot be otherwise programmed.
Jardy Dawson WA7JRD
Message sent by....Oh look!! Pretty lights!!
On May 25, 2020, at 18:50, Terry Moore tmoore@1791.com wrote:
I think everyone has missed JP's point.
In an emergency, a person can use anything on any band to secure assistance if life is being threatened. Terry, KI0RE
On 5/25/20 7:42 PM, JP wrote:
Typen, your last email about programming the Arcshell units was very much appreciated.
I had unsubscribed from the user forum last week as I found that the advice given enabled me (I thought!) to reprogram several units without a hitch. I changed all the channels to the first 16 FRS-approved channels, but I did not lower the power setting for those permitted only for 0.5 W on the first iteration as I just wanted to ascertain if I had done things otherwise correctly. No other program settings were changed before uploading the new settings to the units. Indeed, the two units functioned OK it seemed until I tried to use the ‘scanning’ function assigned in the OEM programming to Channel 16. This had worked under the previous OEM programming. I found that it would not work on either unit after changing the channels, even though they could send and receive on all the other channels properly. I want the scanning facility preserved on all the units so I re subscribed to the Users Forum in hope of a solution.
I understand from you and your colleagues that this unit is still not FCC approved and will never be unless certain changes are made and the units are then officially approved. Rest assured they won’t be given into the hands of 3 years olds to talk on the beach, but only used briefly and hopefully rarely in the event of an impending fire disaster in our community with some frail neighbors who need checking on if cell towers and power lines are down (which has happened before). I appreciate all you guys’ expert advice and I trust you will still impart whatever guidance needed here to bring this feature back.
Thanking you, Jonathan
_______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Terry at tmoore@1791.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Jardy at jardy72@yahoo.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Glenn at glennervin@cableone.net To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
However, that can't apply to training your members. That wouldn't be an emergency.
On 25 May 2020 at 22:31 Glenn K0LNY glennervin@cableone.net wrote:
I'll say with no hesitation, that if there is an public emergency, I couldn't care less what the FCC thinks. Glenn .
GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't. A citizens band radio doesn't require a license either, but I don't think its your best choice. Hilly terrain may be an asset or a big problem if you have neighbors on the other side of the hill.
Not being FCC approved may involve more than just which frequencies are being used. I is certainly possible, or even likely that even if its on the right frequency, the transmission may not meet the requirements to be legal. For your system to work, it needs regular practice.
From your brief description, the best option I see is having neighbors in key spots get an amateur radio license. It does require a test, but the first test isn't that hard. There are three level of licenses in amateur radio. The technicians license is the lowest, and the test isn't that hard. It's likely to work for most of your options. The General License allow a lot more privileges, but it is a harder test. The Amateur Extra is the highest level, and by far the toughest test. For me I was really ready for the Tech in about 2 weeks. The General took about a month of study and the Extra about 2 months. This is a few minutes of study a day, not an 8 hour a day crash course. Not everyone would necessarily need a license.
The benefits are many. Even without power, many larger more powerful units can be powered with batteries, generators or a host methods that don't require the grid to be working. It also counts on no infrastructure like cell towers or the internet. Though some in amateur radio use the internet for many things, if its out it isn't essential
Check out the ARRL website. There is a lot there that is good information that I think will go a long way to helping you make the best decision for your community. Also local ham clubs are a good starting point as well.
I second the Amateur test, but in the absence of that, pay the 80$ and get the GMRS license, and use GMRS frequencies only.
You still probably will not be 100% legal, but that's mostly on the radio not having GMRS part certifications which you can easily rectify by replacing them with one that is certified for GMRS.
At the very least you will want to program the arcshell radios to FRS/GMRS frequencies with nothing in the CTCSS/DCS codes at all.
-Chance
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:15 AM Mark Blackwell markshamradio@pobox.com wrote:
GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't. A citizens band radio doesn't require a license either, but I don't think its your best choice. Hilly terrain may be an asset or a big problem if you have neighbors on the other side of the hill.
Not being FCC approved may involve more than just which frequencies are being used. I is certainly possible, or even likely that even if its on the right frequency, the transmission may not meet the requirements to be legal. For your system to work, it needs regular practice.
From your brief description, the best option I see is having neighbors in key spots get an amateur radio license. It does require a test, but the first test isn't that hard. There are three level of licenses in amateur radio. The technicians license is the lowest, and the test isn't that hard. It's likely to work for most of your options. The General License allow a lot more privileges, but it is a harder test. The Amateur Extra is the highest level, and by far the toughest test. For me I was really ready for the Tech in about 2 weeks. The General took about a month of study and the Extra about 2 months. This is a few minutes of study a day, not an 8 hour a day crash course. Not everyone would necessarily need a license.
The benefits are many. Even without power, many larger more powerful units can be powered with batteries, generators or a host methods that don't require the grid to be working. It also counts on no infrastructure like cell towers or the internet. Though some in amateur radio use the internet for many things, if its out it isn't essential
Check out the ARRL website. There is a lot there that is good information that I think will go a long way to helping you make the best decision for your community. Also local ham clubs are a good starting point as well.
-- Mark Blackwell markshamradio@pobox.com
On Mon, May 11, 2020, at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Pierce wrote:
Best wishes from a Noob,
I am a FireWise neighborhood council member in a rural, high-risk forested area (70 miles from the Paradise Fire) of northern California. Several neighbors and I want to set up a backup evacuation radio notification system for our neighborhood in the event that power (lose cable internet and VOIP phone service) and cell towers are down (the local tower burnt last year during an event). And we have spotty cell coverage at best.
We found the best-seller Arcshells on Amazon are powerful and reach through our hilly neighborhood OK. But I understand that 1. The devices are not FCC approved; 2. Antennae is removable; 3. Stock programming is a mix of FRS and GMRS frequencies. Fire chief has given go ahead for us to use them if we don’t interfere with any of the EMS, police, and fire frequencies. The stock frequencies programmed in the Arcshell AR-5 are indeed different than all the official ones used.
But some neighbors want the radios reprogrammed so they are strictly only using FRS frequencies. I’ve been able to query and download the memory from an arcshell, and I believe I have figured out how to save a modified memory profile to a file so that it could uploaded to all units.
Questions: 1. Using the chirp edit function can I just go ahead and change all channels’ frequencies to strictly FRS permitted ones? 2. Do I need to change any of the other settings like Tone Mode, Tonesql, DTCS Code, etc, or can they just remain as is?
Thanks for your knowledgeable help!
Jonathan _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to markshamradio@pobox.com at markshamradio@pobox.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Chance at chance.fulton@gmail.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
I thought that FRS/GMRS equipment MUST HAVE fixed antennas. So you might not be able to use these devices as they will never get FCC approved because of the removable antenna.I might be wrong though. Jean-Paul N1JPL
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:32 AM, Chance Fultonchance.fulton@gmail.com wrote: _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Jean-Paul Louis at louijp@yahoo.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
GMRS allows removable/external antennas. FRS does not.
FCC Part 95 certification for GMRS, FRS and MURS radios includes far more than just the antenna type and transmit power.
Tom ND5Y
On 5/12/20 10:56 AM, Jean-Paul Louis via chirp_users wrote:
I thought that FRS/GMRS equipment MUST HAVE fixed antennas.
The part 95 FRS radios must have fixed antennas, GMRS with a proper GMRS license can have much higher power, and any antenna that keeps you within the power limits.
GMRS is approved for repeaters having up to 50W I believe. (It could be 30W)
-Chance
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:59 AM Jean-Paul Louis via chirp_users < chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
I thought that FRS/GMRS equipment MUST HAVE fixed antennas. So you might not be able to use these devices as they will never get FCC approved because of the removable antenna. I might be wrong though.
Jean-Paul N1JPL
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:32 AM, Chance Fulton chance.fulton@gmail.com wrote: _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Jean-Paul Louis at louijp@yahoo.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Chance at chance.fulton@gmail.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't.
This statement is incorrect. Even FRS requires a license, but in the case of this service it is free of cost: the license comes with the radio, /which must be FCC approved/ for this particular service. Many of the cheap radios don't fulfill this requirement and are not legal to use.
As stated by other posters already: it would be your best option to get a ham radio Technician license. It's not very difficult, you must go to an exam session (35 questions multiple choice, easy; the difficult thing these days with COVID-19 is the availability of such exams, though). With a Technician license you are legally allowed to use radios not approved by the FCC while operating on ham bands - but still not on GMRS or FRS or CB or MURS. These services /always /require FCC approved equipment.
Regards Bernhard AE6YN Fremont, CA
On 12-May-20 08:11, Mark Blackwell wrote:
GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't. A citizens band radio doesn't require a license either, but I don't think its your best choice. Hilly terrain may be an asset or a big problem if you have neighbors on the other side of the hill.
Not being FCC approved may involve more than just which frequencies are being used. I is certainly possible, or even likely that even if its on the right frequency, the transmission may not meet the requirements to be legal. For your system to work, it needs regular practice.
From your brief description, the best option I see is having neighbors in key spots get an amateur radio license. It does require a test, but the first test isn't that hard. There are three level of licenses in amateur radio. The technicians license is the lowest, and the test isn't that hard. It's likely to work for most of your options. The General License allow a lot more privileges, but it is a harder test. The Amateur Extra is the highest level, and by far the toughest test. For me I was really ready for the Tech in about 2 weeks. The General took about a month of study and the Extra about 2 months. This is a few minutes of study a day, not an 8 hour a day crash course. Not everyone would necessarily need a license.
The benefits are many. Even without power, many larger more powerful units can be powered with batteries, generators or a host methods that don't require the grid to be working. It also counts on no infrastructure like cell towers or the internet. Though some in amateur radio use the internet for many things, if its out it isn't essential
Check out the ARRL website. There is a lot there that is good information that I think will go a long way to helping you make the best decision for your community. Also local ham clubs are a good starting point as well.
-- Mark Blackwell markshamradio@pobox.com mailto:markshamradio@pobox.com
On Mon, May 11, 2020, at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Pierce wrote:
Best wishes from a Noob,
I am a FireWise neighborhood council member in a rural, high-risk forested area (70 miles from the Paradise Fire) of northern California. Several neighbors and I want to set up a backup evacuation radio notification system for our neighborhood in the event that power (lose cable internet and VOIP phone service) and cell towers are down (the local tower burnt last year during an event). And we have spotty cell coverage at best.
We found the best-seller Arcshells on Amazon are powerful and reach through our hilly neighborhood OK. But I understand that 1. The devices are not FCC approved; 2. Antennae is removable; 3. Stock programming is a mix of FRS and GMRS frequencies. Fire chief has given go ahead for us to use them if we don’t interfere with any of the EMS, police, and fire frequencies. The stock frequencies programmed in the Arcshell AR-5 are indeed different than all the official ones used.
But some neighbors want the radios reprogrammed so they are strictly only using FRS frequencies. I’ve been able to query and download the memory from an arcshell, and I believe I have figured out how to save a modified memory profile to a file so that it could uploaded to all units.
Questions: 1. Using the chirp edit function can I just go ahead and change all channels’ frequencies to strictly FRS permitted ones? 2. Do I need to change any of the other settings like Tone Mode, Tonesql, DTCS Code, etc, or can they just remain as is?
Thanks for your knowledgeable help!
Jonathan
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to markshamradio@pobox.com mailto:markshamradio@pobox.com at markshamradio@pobox.com mailto:markshamradio@pobox.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Bernhard Hailer at ae6yn@arrl.net To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
The license isn't a physical license, that part is only to use the higher powered GMRS frequencies that are usually included in blister pack radios from big box stores.
"FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provided you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government."
https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/family-radio...
That said, the Arcshell radios are most certainly not legal for FRS (for many different reasons), and probably not for GMRS by (at least) not being type accepted for part 95 use.
-Chance
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 2:45 PM Bernhard Hailer ae6yn@arrl.net wrote:
GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't.
This statement is incorrect. Even FRS requires a license, but in the case of this service it is free of cost: the license comes with the radio, *which must be FCC approved* for this particular service. Many of the cheap radios don't fulfill this requirement and are not legal to use.
As stated by other posters already: it would be your best option to get a ham radio Technician license. It's not very difficult, you must go to an exam session (35 questions multiple choice, easy; the difficult thing these days with COVID-19 is the availability of such exams, though). With a Technician license you are legally allowed to use radios not approved by the FCC while operating on ham bands - but still not on GMRS or FRS or CB or MURS. These services *always *require FCC approved equipment.
Regards Bernhard AE6YN Fremont, CA
On 12-May-20 08:11, Mark Blackwell wrote:
GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't. A citizens band radio doesn't require a license either, but I don't think its your best choice. Hilly terrain may be an asset or a big problem if you have neighbors on the other side of the hill.
Not being FCC approved may involve more than just which frequencies are being used. I is certainly possible, or even likely that even if its on the right frequency, the transmission may not meet the requirements to be legal. For your system to work, it needs regular practice.
From your brief description, the best option I see is having neighbors in key spots get an amateur radio license. It does require a test, but the first test isn't that hard. There are three level of licenses in amateur radio. The technicians license is the lowest, and the test isn't that hard. It's likely to work for most of your options. The General License allow a lot more privileges, but it is a harder test. The Amateur Extra is the highest level, and by far the toughest test. For me I was really ready for the Tech in about 2 weeks. The General took about a month of study and the Extra about 2 months. This is a few minutes of study a day, not an 8 hour a day crash course. Not everyone would necessarily need a license.
The benefits are many. Even without power, many larger more powerful units can be powered with batteries, generators or a host methods that don't require the grid to be working. It also counts on no infrastructure like cell towers or the internet. Though some in amateur radio use the internet for many things, if its out it isn't essential
Check out the ARRL website. There is a lot there that is good information that I think will go a long way to helping you make the best decision for your community. Also local ham clubs are a good starting point as well.
-- Mark Blackwell markshamradio@pobox.com
On Mon, May 11, 2020, at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Pierce wrote:
Best wishes from a Noob,
I am a FireWise neighborhood council member in a rural, high-risk forested area (70 miles from the Paradise Fire) of northern California. Several neighbors and I want to set up a backup evacuation radio notification system for our neighborhood in the event that power (lose cable internet and VOIP phone service) and cell towers are down (the local tower burnt last year during an event). And we have spotty cell coverage at best.
We found the best-seller Arcshells on Amazon are powerful and reach through our hilly neighborhood OK. But I understand that 1. The devices are not FCC approved; 2. Antennae is removable; 3. Stock programming is a mix of FRS and GMRS frequencies. Fire chief has given go ahead for us to use them if we don’t interfere with any of the EMS, police, and fire frequencies. The stock frequencies programmed in the Arcshell AR-5 are indeed different than all the official ones used.
But some neighbors want the radios reprogrammed so they are strictly only using FRS frequencies. I’ve been able to query and download the memory from an arcshell, and I believe I have figured out how to save a modified memory profile to a file so that it could uploaded to all units.
Questions: 1. Using the chirp edit function can I just go ahead and change all channels’ frequencies to strictly FRS permitted ones? 2. Do I need to change any of the other settings like Tone Mode, Tonesql, DTCS Code, etc, or can they just remain as is?
Thanks for your knowledgeable help!
Jonathan _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to markshamradio@pobox.com at markshamradio@pobox.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
chirp_users mailing listchirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.comhttp://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Bernhard Hailer at ae6yn@arrl.net To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Chance at chance.fulton@gmail.com To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
"FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not
required to operate an FRS radio provided you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government."
The same website also states:
"You can operate a FRS transmitter at any place where the FCC regulates radio communications, subject to certain limitations. A FRS transmitter may not be modified /and must be certified by the FCC/."
This is also valid for GMRS in §95.1761, GMRS transmitter certification:
(a) Each GMRS transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended to operate in the GMRS) must be certified in accordance with this subpart and part 2 of this chapter.
If the Arcshells aren't specifically certified for GMRS, then you can't legally use them.
Regards Bernhard AE6YN Fremont, CA
On 12-May-20 11:55, Chance Fulton wrote:
The license isn't a physical license, that part is only to use the higher powered GMRS frequencies that are usually included in blister pack radios from big box stores.
"FRS is licensed by rule. This means an individual license is not required to operate an FRS radio provided you comply with the rules. You may operate an FRS radio regardless of your age, and for personal or for business use if you are not a representative of a foreign government."
https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/family-radio...
That said, the Arcshell radios are most certainly not legal for FRS (for many different reasons), and probably not for GMRS by (at least) not being type accepted for part 95 use.
-Chance
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 2:45 PM Bernhard Hailer <ae6yn@arrl.net mailto:ae6yn@arrl.net> wrote:
> GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't. This statement is incorrect. Even FRS requires a license, but in the case of this service it is free of cost: the license comes with the radio, /which must be FCC approved/ for this particular service. Many of the cheap radios don't fulfill this requirement and are not legal to use. As stated by other posters already: it would be your best option to get a ham radio Technician license. It's not very difficult, you must go to an exam session (35 questions multiple choice, easy; the difficult thing these days with COVID-19 is the availability of such exams, though). With a Technician license you are legally allowed to use radios not approved by the FCC while operating on ham bands - but still not on GMRS or FRS or CB or MURS. These services /always /require FCC approved equipment. Regards Bernhard AE6YN Fremont, CA On 12-May-20 08:11, Mark Blackwell wrote:GMRS does require a license, and FRS doesn't. A citizens band radio doesn't require a license either, but I don't think its your best choice. Hilly terrain may be an asset or a big problem if you have neighbors on the other side of the hill. Not being FCC approved may involve more than just which frequencies are being used. I is certainly possible, or even likely that even if its on the right frequency, the transmission may not meet the requirements to be legal. For your system to work, it needs regular practice. From your brief description, the best option I see is having neighbors in key spots get an amateur radio license. It does require a test, but the first test isn't that hard. There are three level of licenses in amateur radio. The technicians license is the lowest, and the test isn't that hard. It's likely to work for most of your options. The General License allow a lot more privileges, but it is a harder test. The Amateur Extra is the highest level, and by far the toughest test. For me I was really ready for the Tech in about 2 weeks. The General took about a month of study and the Extra about 2 months. This is a few minutes of study a day, not an 8 hour a day crash course. Not everyone would necessarily need a license. The benefits are many. Even without power, many larger more powerful units can be powered with batteries, generators or a host methods that don't require the grid to be working. It also counts on no infrastructure like cell towers or the internet. Though some in amateur radio use the internet for many things, if its out it isn't essential Check out the ARRL website. There is a lot there that is good information that I think will go a long way to helping you make the best decision for your community. Also local ham clubs are a good starting point as well. -- Mark Blackwell markshamradio@pobox.com <mailto:markshamradio@pobox.com> On Mon, May 11, 2020, at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Pierce wrote:Best wishes from a Noob, I am a FireWise neighborhood council member in a rural, high-risk forested area (70 miles from the Paradise Fire) of northern California. Several neighbors and I want to set up a backup evacuation radio notification system for our neighborhood in the event that power (lose cable internet and VOIP phone service) and cell towers are down (the local tower burnt last year during an event). And we have spotty cell coverage at best. We found the best-seller Arcshells on Amazon are powerful and reach through our hilly neighborhood OK. But I understand that 1. The devices are not FCC approved; 2. Antennae is removable; 3. Stock programming is a mix of FRS and GMRS frequencies. Fire chief has given go ahead for us to use them if we don’t interfere with any of the EMS, police, and fire frequencies. The stock frequencies programmed in the Arcshell AR-5 are indeed different than all the official ones used. But some neighbors want the radios reprogrammed so they are strictly only using FRS frequencies. I’ve been able to query and download the memory from an arcshell, and I believe I have figured out how to save a modified memory profile to a file so that it could uploaded to all units. Questions: 1. Using the chirp edit function can I just go ahead and change all channels’ frequencies to strictly FRS permitted ones? 2. Do I need to change any of the other settings like Tone Mode, Tonesql, DTCS Code, etc, or can they just remain as is? Thanks for your knowledgeable help! Jonathan _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to markshamradio@pobox.com <mailto:markshamradio@pobox.com> at markshamradio@pobox.com <mailto:markshamradio@pobox.com> To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com>_______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Bernhard Hailer atae6yn@arrl.net <mailto:ae6yn@arrl.net> To unsubscribe, send an email tochirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com>_______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Chance at chance.fulton@gmail.com <mailto:chance.fulton@gmail.com> To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com>-- Chance Fulton chance.fulton@gmail.com mailto:chance.fulton@gmail.com 810.441.5795
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users This message was sent to Bernhard Hailer at ae6yn@arrl.net To unsubscribe, send an email to chirp_users-unsubscribe@intrepid.danplanet.com
participants (12)
-
Bernhard Hailer -
Chance Fulton -
Glenn K0LNY -
Jardy -
Jean-Paul Louis -
Jonathan Pierce -
JP
-
Mark Blackwell -
Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF -
Terry Moore -
Tom Consodine -
Tycen Stafford