[chirp_users] Unused Fields Option and the missing NONE selections
Well thanks for the tongue lashing (that's a little overboard) but it was a little lecture on the "Hide Unused Fields" checkbox and how it is now going to be the default and solve all my problems.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!! Read on to learn why.
So I load up my data and change the option to hide unused fields. OK, all those pesky 88.5s in the sheet magically disappear. OK, great.
But then I change one of the PLs to 100.0. Oops, since there are no horizontal lines to help guide me across a sea of blankness, I got one off and meant to change the next one down. OK, just set it back off by ... uhhhh... THERE IS NO "NONE" selection. I CANNOT SET IT BACK TO OFF!! Aww nuts, now I have to either delete this memory and enter it in again or kill all my updates and reload the sheet and start again. Neither is a good thing to have to do because of a missing option in a box on a sheet without any guide rules (lines) to help me get it right in the first place.
You see, good programming practice is good programming practice. Band-Aids are NOT GOOD PROGRAMMING PRACTICE.
Not sorry about the screaming. I worked in computers for 30+ years. I was trained and also taught myself and taught classes about good programming practice. And what CHIRP is trying to do with this Band-Aid is just plain wrong. If you can set something on, you must be able to set it off, too.
As I said. If I had produced something like this and put it out to the field, I would have been fired!
Now it is time that someone, somewhere in the organization realized that there HAS to be a NONE selection to turn off a PL or any other selection that is no longer needed or was entered by mistake. And as far as I can tell, that is not possible since there is no NONE selection.
Am I wrong? If so, I apologize in advance and await another tongue lashing.
Thanks to all for all the hard work but someone missed a standard design point on multiple of the columns.
Mike
The proper channel for this type of request is submitting a Bug Report/Service Request which can be found at: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/issues
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com [mailto:chirp_users-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morrow Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 7:13 AM To: chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_users] Unused Fields Option and the missing NONE selections
Well thanks for the tongue lashing (that's a little overboard) but it was a little lecture on the "Hide Unused Fields" checkbox and how it is now going to be the default and solve all my problems.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!! Read on to learn why.
So I load up my data and change the option to hide unused fields. OK, all those pesky 88.5s in the sheet magically disappear. OK, great.
But then I change one of the PLs to 100.0. Oops, since there are no horizontal lines to help guide me across a sea of blankness, I got one off and meant to change the next one down. OK, just set it back off by ... uhhhh... THERE IS NO "NONE" selection. I CANNOT SET IT BACK TO OFF!! Aww nuts, now I have to either delete this memory and enter it in again or kill all my updates and reload the sheet and start again. Neither is a good thing to have to do because of a missing option in a box on a sheet without any guide rules (lines) to help me get it right in the first place.
You see, good programming practice is good programming practice. Band-Aids are NOT GOOD PROGRAMMING PRACTICE.
Not sorry about the screaming. I worked in computers for 30+ years. I was trained and also taught myself and taught classes about good programming practice. And what CHIRP is trying to do with this Band-Aid is just plain wrong. If you can set something on, you must be able to set it off, too.
As I said. If I had produced something like this and put it out to the field, I would have been fired!
Now it is time that someone, somewhere in the organization realized that there HAS to be a NONE selection to turn off a PL or any other selection that is no longer needed or was entered by mistake. And as far as I can tell, that is not possible since there is no NONE selection.
Am I wrong? If so, I apologize in advance and await another tongue lashing.
Thanks to all for all the hard work but someone missed a standard design point on multiple of the columns.
Mike
Seems like you are being rather hard on a bunch of volunteers. And for a program which you can get for nothing!
On 07/31/2014 06:13 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:
Well thanks for the tongue lashing (that's a little overboard) but it was a little lecture on the "Hide Unused Fields" checkbox and how it is now going to be the default and solve all my problems.
I look at ever message in this group. I did not notice any tongue lashing.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!! Read on to learn why.
So I load up my data and change the option to hide unused fields. OK, all those pesky 88.5s in the sheet magically disappear. OK, great.
But then I change one of the PLs to 100.0. Oops, since there are no horizontal lines to help guide me across a sea of blankness, I got one off and meant to change the next one down. OK, just set it back off by ... uhhhh... THERE IS NO "NONE" selection. I CANNOT SET IT BACK TO OFF!! Aww nuts, now I have to either delete this memory and enter it in again or kill all my updates and reload the sheet and start again. Neither is a good thing to have to do because of a missing option in a box on a sheet without any guide rules (lines) to help me get it right in the first place.
Looks like the lack of horizontal lines is a windows only problem. Works fine in Linux. In windows if you click on the left side of the row, the whole row will be highlighted.
I get the none selection here in either windows or linux.
You see, good programming practice is good programming practice. Band-Aids are NOT GOOD PROGRAMMING PRACTICE.
I did not consider this a band aid, just a convenience item. Most manufacturer software leaves these values, even when none are used as I recall.
Not sorry about the screaming. I worked in computers for 30+ years. I was trained and also taught myself and taught classes about good programming practice. And what CHIRP is trying to do with this Band-Aid is just plain wrong. If you can set something on, you must be able to set it off, too.
As I said. If I had produced something like this and put it out to the field, I would have been fired!
So fire someone, if it makes you feel good.
Now it is time that someone, somewhere in the organization realized that there HAS to be a NONE selection to turn off a PL or any other selection that is no longer needed or was entered by mistake. And as far as I can tell, that is not possible since there is no NONE selection.
Why, it is there?
Am I wrong? If so, I apologize in advance and await another tongue lashing.
No comment. I am just a user.
Thanks to all for all the hard work but someone missed a standard design point on multiple of the columns.
Mike
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
I'll second that!
Randy Elliott VE3JPU
On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:01 AM, W Paul Mills AC0HY@WPMills.com wrote:
Seems like you are being rather hard on a bunch of volunteers. And for a program which you can get for nothing!
On 07/31/2014 06:13 AM, Mike Morrow wrote: Well thanks for the tongue lashing (that's a little overboard) but it was a little lecture on the "Hide Unused Fields" checkbox and how it is now going to be the default and solve all my problems.
I look at ever message in this group. I did not notice any tongue lashing.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!! Read on to learn why.
So I load up my data and change the option to hide unused fields. OK, all those pesky 88.5s in the sheet magically disappear. OK, great.
But then I change one of the PLs to 100.0. Oops, since there are no horizontal lines to help guide me across a sea of blankness, I got one off and meant to change the next one down. OK, just set it back off by ... uhhhh... THERE IS NO "NONE" selection. I CANNOT SET IT BACK TO OFF!! Aww nuts, now I have to either delete this memory and enter it in again or kill all my updates and reload the sheet and start again. Neither is a good thing to have to do because of a missing option in a box on a sheet without any guide rules (lines) to help me get it right in the first place.
Looks like the lack of horizontal lines is a windows only problem. Works fine in Linux. In windows if you click on the left side of the row, the whole row will be highlighted.
I get the none selection here in either windows or linux.
You see, good programming practice is good programming practice. Band-Aids are NOT GOOD PROGRAMMING PRACTICE.
I did not consider this a band aid, just a convenience item. Most manufacturer software leaves these values, even when none are used as I recall.
Not sorry about the screaming. I worked in computers for 30+ years. I was trained and also taught myself and taught classes about good programming practice. And what CHIRP is trying to do with this Band-Aid is just plain wrong. If you can set something on, you must be able to set it off, too.
As I said. If I had produced something like this and put it out to the field, I would have been fired!
So fire someone, if it makes you feel good.
Now it is time that someone, somewhere in the organization realized that there HAS to be a NONE selection to turn off a PL or any other selection that is no longer needed or was entered by mistake. And as far as I can tell, that is not possible since there is no NONE selection.
Why, it is there?
Am I wrong? If so, I apologize in advance and await another tongue lashing.
No comment. I am just a user.
Thanks to all for all the hard work but someone missed a standard design point on multiple of the columns.
Mike
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
-- /*************************************************
- Amateur Radio Station AC0HY *
- W. Paul Mills SN807 *
- Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
- President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club *
*************************************************/ _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Dude, I'd ask for my money back ....... O:-) On 7/31/2014 11:42 AM, Randy Elliott wrote:
I'll second that!
Randy Elliott VE3JPU
On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:01 AM, W Paul Mills AC0HY@WPMills.com wrote:
Seems like you are being rather hard on a bunch of volunteers. And for a program which you can get for nothing!
On 07/31/2014 06:13 AM, Mike Morrow wrote: Well thanks for the tongue lashing (that's a little overboard) but it was a little lecture on the "Hide Unused Fields" checkbox and how it is now going to be the default and solve all my problems.
I look at ever message in this group. I did not notice any tongue lashing.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!! Read on to learn why.
So I load up my data and change the option to hide unused fields. OK, all those pesky 88.5s in the sheet magically disappear. OK, great.
But then I change one of the PLs to 100.0. Oops, since there are no horizontal lines to help guide me across a sea of blankness, I got one off and meant to change the next one down. OK, just set it back off by ... uhhhh... THERE IS NO "NONE" selection. I CANNOT SET IT BACK TO OFF!! Aww nuts, now I have to either delete this memory and enter it in again or kill all my updates and reload the sheet and start again. Neither is a good thing to have to do because of a missing option in a box on a sheet without any guide rules (lines) to help me get it right in the first place.
Looks like the lack of horizontal lines is a windows only problem. Works fine in Linux. In windows if you click on the left side of the row, the whole row will be highlighted.
I get the none selection here in either windows or linux.
You see, good programming practice is good programming practice. Band-Aids are NOT GOOD PROGRAMMING PRACTICE.
I did not consider this a band aid, just a convenience item. Most manufacturer software leaves these values, even when none are used as I recall.
Not sorry about the screaming. I worked in computers for 30+ years. I was trained and also taught myself and taught classes about good programming practice. And what CHIRP is trying to do with this Band-Aid is just plain wrong. If you can set something on, you must be able to set it off, too.
As I said. If I had produced something like this and put it out to the field, I would have been fired!
So fire someone, if it makes you feel good.
Now it is time that someone, somewhere in the organization realized that there HAS to be a NONE selection to turn off a PL or any other selection that is no longer needed or was entered by mistake. And as far as I can tell, that is not possible since there is no NONE selection.
Why, it is there?
Am I wrong? If so, I apologize in advance and await another tongue lashing.
No comment. I am just a user.
Thanks to all for all the hard work but someone missed a standard design point on multiple of the columns.
Mike
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
-- /*************************************************
- Amateur Radio Station AC0HY *
- W. Paul Mills SN807 *
- Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
- President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club *
*************************************************/ _______________________________________________ chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
chirp_users mailing list chirp_users@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users
Mike,
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 7:13 AM, Mike Morrow <MikeyMail@iliketheinternet.com
wrote:
Well thanks for the tongue lashing (that's a little overboard) but it was a little lecture on the "Hide Unused Fields" checkbox and how it is now going to be the default and solve all my problems.
IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!! Read on to learn why.
So I load up my data and change the option to hide unused fields. OK, all those pesky 88.5s in the sheet magically disappear. OK, great.
But then I change one of the PLs to 100.0. Oops, since there are no horizontal lines to help guide me across a sea of blankness, I got one off and meant to change the next one down.
Clicking the memory that you want to edit does nothing but highlight it all the way across. At this time you can verify that you have selected the desired memory.
You must then click a second time on the Tone fileld to bring up the drop down menu containing the Tone selections. At this time the highlight changes from blue to a light grey, but it still has a contrast between it and the unselected memories.
Even after you chose the desired tone value, you still haven't changed anything. Pressing the [escape] key now will return the field back to the previous setting.
It isn't until after you click onto another cell or press [enter] that the change becomes "set".
OK, just set it back off by ... uhhhh... THERE IS NO "NONE" selection. I CANNOT SET IT BACK TO OFF!! Aww nuts, now I have to either delete this memory and enter it in again or kill all my updates and reload the sheet and start again.
With CHIRP, the normal sequence of events would be to set the Tone Mode column (and Cross Mode column if needed) first. This will unhide the default values the columns required by the selected tone mode. You would then change them to suit your requirements.
You most likely have "Smart Tone Modes" enabled. Because you selected a tone in the Tone column and "set" it as the new value, it was contrary to the Tone Mode setting. CHIRP changed the Tone Mode setting from "(None)" to "Tone" so it would be once again be compatible with your change.
All you would have had to do is to set the Tone Mode back to "(None)". The Tone and ToneSql columns are unused when Tone Mode is "(None) so they would have returned to being blank.
You might take a look at these links for insight as to how the columns are depend on each other. http://kc9hi.dyndns.org/uv5r/programming/CHIRP%20Guide.pdf http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/MemoryEditorColumns
Neither is a good thing to have to do because of a missing option in a
box on a sheet without any guide rules (lines) to help me get it right in the first place.
There is a guide rule for the selected memory/memories.
You see, good programming practice is good programming practice. Band-Aids are NOT GOOD PROGRAMMING PRACTICE.
Not sorry about the screaming. I worked in computers for 30+ years. I was trained and also taught myself and taught classes about good programming practice. And what CHIRP is trying to do with this Band-Aid is just plain wrong. If you can set something on, you must be able to set it off, too.
As I said. If I had produced something like this and put it out to the field, I would have been fired!
Now it is time that someone, somewhere in the organization realized that there HAS to be a NONE selection to turn off a PL or any other selection that is no longer needed or was entered by mistake. And as far as I can tell, that is not possible since there is no NONE selection.
There is a "(None)". It is in the Tone Mode column. Setting the Tone Mode to "(None)" means there is no tone functions available. A "NONE" in the Tone, ToneSql, DTCS Code, DTCS Rx Code, DTCS Pol and Cross Mode columns would be redundant.
Do me a favor. Program a new memory or use and existing memory. Now click on it. See the highlight? Now click on the Tone Mode field. Now select each of the available settings one-by-one. See how the "active" fields change from setting to setting? Now set Tone Mode back to "(None)". See how all of the columns become blank.
Am I wrong? If so, I apologize in advance and await another tongue lashing.
Thanks to all for all the hard work but someone missed a standard design point on multiple of the columns.
Mike
Jim KC9HI
participants (6)
-
Jim Unroe -
John LaMartina -
Mike Morrow -
Randy Elliott -
Rock-N-Roll 4x4 Club -
W Paul Mills