Good point. dialout was the defacto standard for so long that us long term *NX people still go by it. It's like saying I'm going to tape something on my DVR. I guess now that modems and serial interfaces are legacy items on most computers it would make sense for the newer distros to make them separate. I'm actually glad you made this post. I have a script I use to install the FLdigi suite and other apps on new computers and I didn't include adding the user to required group.