Dave B
you stated
Chirp is largely free to us the users, other than the cost of time
and effort to install and learn.
This comment is not fair to Dan who maintains Chirp and makes it available for the rest of us. He puts forth the effort to maintain the app, as well as funding the web site where it is hosted for your use. You whine when there is a little hiccup that is the result of your own decision to remain on an older and soon to be unsupported linux distro.
Chirp is free 100%. If you wish to use it then it is entirely up to you if you choose to invest the time and effort (and apparently $) to download it and install it. If you are using linux you should already be familiar with the continual upgrades that occur (even on the LTS distros) over time as security and bug fixes are made available. You should also be aware of changes in the languages being used (such as python) that also require the application developers (such as Dan) to invest more of their time and effort to keep the app functional as the various distros are changed.
Luckily for Dan, the changes that occurred with the update from python 3.11 to python 3.12 did not impact chirp the same as the change from 3.9 to 3.10. Dan kept chirp functional on the older python 2.7 until it was totally removed from almost all distros before releasing chirp-next to migrate from python 2 to python 3.
You should be grateful that apps you wish to use (and almost all are free and developed & maintained by persons who contribute their time and expertise for free) are kept current. It is your choice to remain on an older distro that by your own statement is only in support for another 80 days (LMDE shows security support ends July 1 2024). That means it is your choice to accept whatever the consequences are for this decision.
Ubuntu releases an LTS version every 2 years, a semi-annual update to that distro, and many minor updates in between. In fact, LMDE 6 was released a year ago and recommendations to upgrade apparently were ignored by you so you are stuck with python 3.9 when an upgrade at any time over the past year would have given you either python 3.10 or 3.11 and your current complaints about python would have been moot.
Users choose what linux version to run and when to upgrade. It does not fall as a responsibility of the app developer to keep you informed of every little detail. That responsibility falls on the shoulders of the thousands or or even tens or hundreds of thousands of users to keep themselves informed and up to date.
Stop whining about something that you chose to do 2 years ago and get current on the situation as it is today !!! You are using linux and it is your responsibility to deal with whatever may happen as the FOSS world changes daily.
Jeff KI7GJG
On Mon, Jun 3, 2024 at 3:07 PM Dave B via Users < users@lists.chirpmyradio.com> wrote:
Re:-
On 01/06/2024 21:38, users-request@lists.chirpmyradio.com wrote:
I don't want to specify a specific version here because it's specified
in the package and mentioned when you install (see above). Putting it here is just asking for it to be stale if it doesn't get updated the next time we bump. However, I'll be glad to add to the page that if you see something like the above error message it means your python is too old if you think it's necessary for clarity.
(Sorry to shout, but...)
Yeah, but please don't do that again. Your responses here have already
been quite rude and I'm sure the other volunteers who work on this (and the docs, thanks Jeff!) will join me in appreciating you being a lot more respectful. Thanks!
--Dan
OK Dan. Apologies for "shouting", but things could be somewhat easier for us (the less experience Python users out here) than your good self, who only get involved with installs and updates when needed.
Just having something on the download page (and in the archive) that states what the minimum Python version (and wxPython perhaps) is needed for any particular version of Chirp, would save "A Lot" of user time (+ cost for those on a $-per-kByte connection) and confusion re Chirp, when they find after waiting (and or paying for) the download, that it won't install.
I see you updated the download info page some hours ago now, at least your name is at the bottom of the page, not Jeff's. (Sorry, I don't know who Jeff is in this respect.)
As to "needing" to update my distro (LMDE 5 just now) that is still in full support for nearly another 80 days, it keeps telling me.
I don't doubt that things move on over time, that's the nature of stuff, but some appreciation for us the users would help us a lot.
As for what pipx is telling us when it fails, that's rather cryptic and embedded in a lot of other text, and looks at first, to be something that was spat out as some code crashed and burnt.
OK. For now, I've installed one of the 2024 January 11th version, as that still works with Python 3.9.x So I have the use of Chirp again, for now.
FYI: There are several LTS versions of Linux, that last a lot longer than the 2 to 2 1/5 years of the mainstream distro's. Many are popular with Radio Amateurs, just because they /*do not*/ keep messing messing with utility version changes and such. "Stability" is preferable to many of us, rather than living on the bleeding edge of development. If a distro (as mine is) still receives security patches, that for the most part, is all we need.
However... For those who would like to know if it's viable to try to install a CHIRP update, before doing so.
First, in a terminal command line session. (Ctrl + Alt + T will launch a fresh terminal/command line session.) These commands will show you what you are running. (The '$' indicates the command line prompt, you do not need to enter it.) The result is shown on the next line.
Find out the currently installed Python version.
$ python3 --version Python 3.9.2
(https://devguide.python.org/versions/ is good to view, in relation to what you discover above. 3.9.x doesn't die, until October 2025, nearly a year and a half away, just for info...)
To find out the installed version of wxpython...
$ python3 -c "import wx;print(wx.__version__)" 4.0.7
Both as discovered on my present system.
In a downloaded .whl file, using an archive browser, look for the folder 'chirp-yyymmdd.dist-info' (Where yyyymmdd equals the date part of whatever file you downloaded.)
In that folder, look in the file METADATA and you'll find a string (it is a plain text file) like:- 'Requires-Python: >=3.7,<4' That (in this case) indicates that a Python version between 3.7 and 4 is needed.
(Greater or equal to v3.7 and less than v4 That example comes from the 20240111 dated .whl file.)
If you download the .tar.gz file instead, look for the file 'requirements.txt' Again, that has some minimum version info re wxpython, but not python itself, that can be found in the file PKG-INFO Again, both are plain text files.
Sadly, you do have to download an entire file first to discover that info in either case..
Frankly, I'd suggest doing that first, */before/* uninstalling an existing working version of Chirp!
Oh, I'd also keep a local copy of the downloaded file, especially when you do install it successfully. You may need it to repair things if something else goes bad, or to revert to a known working state if a future install goes bad. Perhaps without i'net access at that time.
FYI: The immediate past day-job (thankfully I'm retired now!) I used to be the customer support and service guru, in-house and on-site, both hardware and software.
I learnt very early on, that making as much information available to users, /before/ they commit themselves, saves a lot of time, effort (and cost) and greatly increases a customers likelihood to come back for more of whatever we were doing at the time, and giving us more of their money! That is with hardware, and especially software!
Yes, Chirp is largely free to us the users, other than the cost of time and effort to install and learn. For that we are all grateful indeed. But wasting even "free" time does not go down well with many of us. Retired I might be now, but I'm as busy as ever, just working for other "managers". (Domestic and/or feline!)
Dave G8KBV.
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