March 2018 - Users - lists.chirpmyradio.com

Re: [chirp_users] This just kills me... chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 15
by Christopher F. Beesley 24 Mar '18

24 Mar '18

Firstof all .CSV is NOT a microsoft format, end of story. In fact, it hardly justifies being called a format when the only thing that makes it different from any old text is a lot of commas. The .DOC format is not microsoft either, I believe they stole it from WordStar in the same way that they stole the name PageMaker, mangled RS232 hardware handshaking, and failed completely to wire a DIN plug properly on their early keyboards. Thanks to Brandon Clark, P? P?, and others for their support re: This just kills me... Trevor Holyoak - I feel that you have given me an unjustified low score on technical aptitude, please allow me to correct that impression. I have worked as an Electronics Design Engineer for most of my working life. As a hobbyist, I have built radios from scratch, I have worked with valves ranging in size from Nuvistors to 4CX250B's and all sorts of transistors. I have modified the Trio 2300G, the Liner 2, and a wartime VHF Tx/Rx of uncertain origin that tuned the IF using a variable capacitor in each IF stage to select stations. I once put together a rats'-nest PLL using a popular chip of the early 80's and then wrote a program on the BBC Micro to prove that it would decode packet radio signals. I put the extra 'dot' on the frequency display of the Icom IC211E and modified the fast/slow tuning button to make it push on/push off. There were many many more such modifications and experiments back then. I also made a strobe light using the Xenon tube out of an old camera flash gun. It wouldn't work with the trigger voltage provided inside the flash gun, but hooking it up to a handy motorcycle ignition coil solved that little problem! The only thing was that when I touched the metal shaft of the speed control pot I got a bit of a tingle up my arm. This made the strobe light difficult to use - a leather glove helped but was not ideal. I used a PIC microcontroller to enable me to plug an analogue joystick into a mouse port, so I could then fly the virtual Sopwith Camel properly! I wrote the program for that little device, it worked a treat! The hardware just fitted into the really small size of die-cast aluminium box, the long thin one, complete with a 9-way 'D' connector at each end. Powered by the computer mouse port, it needed no batteries. The point is, all of those modifications provided IMPROVEMENTS to existing equipment and the experiments provided USEFUL RESULTS which could either be expanded, or would suggest that the whole idea should be abandoned. Neither the modifications nor the experiments were required because the brand-new paid-for equipment did not work straight out of the box. I did not need to scratch around searching for third-party software because the supplied software was no good, all in Chinese, or both. None of the modifications or experiments were a waste of my time, time which should never have been required in the first place. And this is where the difference is between all those things and the Chinese radios that sparked this discussion. The radios waste my time unnecessarily, it is time that has to be used in order to make the radios work properly. No improvements are made, and no useful results are obtained. I also repair motorcycle electrical systems and restore vintage reel-to-reel tape recorders amongst many other practical activities. Life isn't all about electronics! Now I see that you have to use an old version of Python to run Chirp on some computers! Don't get me wrong, I think Chirp is great. But I have to feel sorry for Dan at times... 73 all, Chris ________________________________ From: chirp_users-bounces(a)intrepid.danplanet.com <chirp_users-bounces(a)intrepid.danplanet.com> on behalf of chirp_users-request(a)intrepid.danplanet.com <chirp_users-request(a)intrepid.danplanet.com> Sent: 23 March 2018 19:00 To: chirp_users(a)intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 15 Send chirp_users mailing list submissions to chirp_users(a)intrepid.danplanet.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to chirp_users-request(a)intrepid.danplanet.com You can reach the person managing the list at chirp_users-owner(a)intrepid.danplanet.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of chirp_users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. This just kills me.... (P? P?) 2. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Brandon Clark) 3. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Trevor Holyoak) 4. iso usb problems (Phil) 5. Re: iso usb problems (Chuck Hast) 6. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF) 7. Re: iso usb problems (Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF) 8. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Aubrey Turner) 9. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (John Kemker) 10. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Al Jones) 11. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF) 12. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Aubrey Turner) 13. Re: iso usb problems (Jim Unroe) 14. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Dan Brown) 15. Re: Chirp wont launch in MacOS (Neil Harrington) 16. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Nigel A. Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF) 17. Re: iso usb problems (Glenn At Home) 18. Re: chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14 (Tom Henderson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 13:32:43 -0700 From: P? P? <lr60(a)yahoo.com> Subject: [chirp_users] This just kills me.... To: "chirp_users(a)intrepid.danplanet.com" <chirp_users(a)intrepid.danplanet.com> Message-ID: <20180322203246.E2C7324F60(a)intrepid.danplanet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" The problem with programming the radios has nothing to do with the radios or the software. It is because of WAR!!! If you look at the start end of your radio programming CABLE, you will see a bulbous end which contains a small USB-TTL converter. The Manufacturers of those ?chips? also wrote software to handle the conversion process. Along comes ANOTHER Chinese Manufacturer who reverse engineers the chips (without paying for R+D) and puts them out for even cheaper. The original chip maker then puts out software that will identify the fake chips and fail to operate, thus creating the problems for hams. Even the radio manufacturers have jumped on the cheap bandwagon and incorporated the fake chips in their own cables. So, WAR has broken out, back and forth. (I converted most of mine to FTDI chips as they have the fewest driver issues.) There is a trend in even more recent radio makers to provide a straight thru cable with NO USB-TTL chip in the cable. All that is done in the radio and the makers have full control over that in their OWN software. So far I have seen this in the Radioddity?s GD-77 and RD-5R. Unfortunately, (HINT, HINT, HINT) CHIRP won?t work with these DMR radios (YET???!!!) So, the moral of this story is WAR is BAD! (Or CHIRP, please rid me of the quirks of Chinese software.) NH6BF Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [chirp_users] chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 15
by Brandon Clark 23 Mar '18

23 Mar '18

Not to interrupt this fascinating discussion on who owns csv files, but to get back to the point . . . As one respondent correctly pointed out, ham radio is supposed to require some technical attitude. I think that's true, and that it is a good thing for the hobby. However, my opinion is that the difficulty of interfacing with and programming radios exists because the process is fundamentally overcomplicated and cumbersome, not because it requires more skill than some hams have. It's just a bad model for how to accomplish the process, and we all know it hurts the hobby by discouraging new hams. By comparison, I could buy a $50 burner phone and a $5 USB cord and interface that phone with any modern computer system to transfer data. Plug and play. Middle school kids build $30 raspberry pi systems that log weather, track motion, and do all kinds of cool things. But to program a $1,000 radio I have to search eBay for a cable, locate drivers somewhere in the bowels of the internet, and then download an image from the device. Honestly ask yourself this, if you had to do all these steps in order to get music downloaded on your phone how many people would just say, "heck no, it isn't worth it!" Probably a lot. Ham radio is all about finding challenges; that's true. But if the hobby is going to survive long term there has to be accessible avenues to at least get started in the hobby. HT and mobile rigs can't be using 80's tech forever, or it will make us look like dinosaurs, and keep new hams away. Let them build radios from kits, terminate cables, and make homebrew vacuum tubes from bubble gum and shot glasses when they get more advanced. Brandon

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Re: [chirp_users] chirp_users Digest, Vol 111, Issue 14
by Brandon Clark 23 Mar '18

23 Mar '18

> > I couldn't agree more with your observations Chris. The state of programming in ham radio is embarrassing at best, I would bet that everyone on this board knows someone who started in radio, got a handheld, and then left the Hobby and discussed because they could not get it programmed. That kind of thing is not at all uncommon and goes beyond embarrassing to the point of being harmful to the Hobby. The problem in radio right now is that every manufacture insists on being an island and not working together. System Fusion, d-star, p25, and so forth. These are all great modes that have their place but where is the manufacturer willing to put their pride down and openly allow licensing to everybody to use "their" mode? And everyone wonders why digital voice never catches on. The programming situation is even worse. The only radio I have owned which uses a standard USB cable is a Kenwood aprs HT. Not exactly an entry-level radio. And in the complexities of software, and it becomes a nightmare. Radios needs to behave like phones, plug them into the computer with a USB cable and then simply drag and drop your CSV file into the right folder for the radio to read it. Not exactly state-of-the-art technology these days, yet ham radio manufacturers are still reliving the 80s. How many of those new hands who quit the hobby would still be hands if they could program as easily as they could save photos on their cell phone? Brandon > > I've said it before and I'll say it again. The whole concept of > programmable devices that can be programmed to destruction by interfering > with the 'wrong' memory is flawed from the start and I don't understand why > people buy them. The whole concept of programmable devices that require the > use of non-standard cables which in turn require the use of out-of-date > drivers on the programming device is ridiculous. Why these radios have > gained such a following is beyond me. Why most of them have not been > returned for refunds the minute they exhibit the faults that I have read > about on here time and time again is also beyond me. Whatever happened to > Plug And Play? > > As an example, even the cheapest printer has more complex user-selectable > parameters available than most of the programmable radios. Printers come > with drivers that work, with user-friendly user-interfaces that only allow > the programming of whatever is sensibly programmable, and with hardware > interfaces that are connected to the programming device via standard cables > available from the average supermarket down the road. When I bought my UV5R > it came with a programming cable that didn't work, and an incomprehensible > CD full of software that is mostly useless. When I finally got something to > work the user-interface to the spread-sheet lookalike was at best clunky - > I would describe it as awful. There were no instructions to speak of and no > support from the suppliers. > > When I add up the hours I have spent and apply a reasonable hourly rate it > becomes obvious that these radios are not cheap at all. > > I recently read somewhere that recent handhelds from at least one of the > big three suffers from the same problems. That's it then - the end of > amateur radio is nigh. My one regret is that me and my UV5R have > contributed to that because I did not return it for a refund. > > (The UV5R is not a particularly good radio anyway. The colour display uses > far too much power and cannot cope with bright sunlight. Mono displays are > generally far better in both respects, and who really needs colour?) > > 73, Chris, an Amateur Radio operator since 1973. > > > ________________________________ >

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[chirp_users] iso usb problems
by Phil 23 Mar '18

23 Mar '18

Hi All I'm facing repeated problems creating a chirp usb system. I've checked my download is correct. Burning is another story. Has anyone burned the iso recently? I've been using Debian, but just now switched to latest Mint. I have tried unetbootin, "Disks", and various other tools. I get messages saying this is not a bootable disk. How can I seriously validate the steps and accuracy of my burning process? Hopefully yours Phil VK4AJK

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[chirp_users] Chirp wont launch in MacOS
by Neil Harrington 22 Mar '18

22 Mar '18

I followed all the directions (including downloading a new python package) and the search does not provide a remedy. Adding in the log file Appreciate the help. Neils-MacBook-Air:~ neilharrington$ /Users/neilharrington/Downloads/chirp-daily-20180316-8.app/Contents/MacOS/chirp ; exit; WARNING: Icon not found Traceback (most recent call last): File "/Users/neilharrington/Downloads/chirp-daily-20180316-8.app/Contents/MacOS/../Resources/chirp/chirpw", line 126, in <module> a = mainapp.ChirpMain() File "/Users/neilharrington/Downloads/chirp-daily-20180316-8.app/Contents/Resources/chirp/chirp/ui/mainapp.py", line 2019, in __init__ self._init_macos(mbar) File "/Users/neilharrington/Downloads/chirp-daily-20180316-8.app/Contents/Resources/chirp/chirp/ui/mainapp.py", line 1961, in _init_macos LOG.error("No MacOS support: %s" % e) NameError: global name 'e' is not defined logout Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed. -- Neil D. Harrington 650.353.3722 linkedin.com/in/neildharrington

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[chirp_users] This just kills me....
by P² P² 22 Mar '18

22 Mar '18

The problem with programming the radios has nothing to do with the radios or the software. It is because of WAR!!! If you look at the start end of your radio programming CABLE, you will see a bulbous end which contains a small USB-TTL converter. The Manufacturers of those “chips” also wrote software to handle the conversion process. Along comes ANOTHER Chinese Manufacturer who reverse engineers the chips (without paying for R+D) and puts them out for even cheaper. The original chip maker then puts out software that will identify the fake chips and fail to operate, thus creating the problems for hams. Even the radio manufacturers have jumped on the cheap bandwagon and incorporated the fake chips in their own cables. So, WAR has broken out, back and forth. (I converted most of mine to FTDI chips as they have the fewest driver issues.) There is a trend in even more recent radio makers to provide a straight thru cable with NO USB-TTL chip in the cable. All that is done in the radio and the makers have full control over that in their OWN software. So far I have seen this in the Radioddity’s GD-77 and RD-5R. Unfortunately, (HINT, HINT, HINT) CHIRP won’t work with these DMR radios (YET???!!!) So, the moral of this story is WAR is BAD! (Or CHIRP, please rid me of the quirks of Chinese software.) NH6BF Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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[chirp_users] This just kills me
by Dennis Wage 21 Mar '18

21 Mar '18

This: https://www.amazon.com/2-Channel-Remote-Control-Transmitter-Highest/dp/B078… costs $15 more than a UV-5R Give me a break. Dennis M. Wage 245 Corum Hill Road Castalian Springs, TN 37031 (615) 310-4242 Cell (615) 562-5128 Home http://hammondb3organ.net http://overdubs.net

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[chirp_users] OT headphone output
by Dennis Wage 20 Mar '18

20 Mar '18

Hello, If this is too off topic, scold me and I'll never do it again. I have a UV-5R. I love this $25 radio for what it is, except. I want to use headphones. However I cannot stand to have audio in just one ear. Plus I drive noisy lawn gear and tractors. I use ear buds with gun muffs over the ear. Microphone will come later when I get my technician test passed. The head phone output is 2.5mm TRS (this alone bugs the crap out of me.) In addition, the tip only carries audio and the ring is TX data. When the radio is scanning there is a low frequency thump in time with the scan that comes out the data port ring. If I plug a 2.5mm TS the data port ring will short to the sleeve. I'm not sure this is good idea. So, I think my only option is to buy a 2.5mm TRS and make a mono cord that only uses the tip. I can then split it to a stereo TRS 3.5mm female to plug my earbuds into. Any other ideas would be appreciated. Dennis M. Wage 245 Corum Hill Road Castalian Springs, TN 37031 (615) 310-4242 Cell (615) 562-5128 Home http://hammondb3organ.net http://overdubs.net

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[chirp_users] Programming TYT TH 9000
by Allen Stines 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

I have a TH 9000 that I am trying to program with CHIRP. According to software, the radio 9000_144 is supported by Chrip, however, when I try to read from radio, it says, "unsupported model." Any ideas? I have used Chirp in the past to program this radio using Windows 7, which is what I am using now. Allen Stines, aka 00 KF4ZDS Assistant Chief, Big Pine VFD (Cell) 828-712-6554 <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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[chirp_users] TH-9800
by P² P² 19 Mar '18

19 Mar '18

I have a TH-9800 that I have programmed with CHIRP for years…never had a problem. The cable that is used looks like a standard USB to mini USB cable. It is NOT. It has a USB to TTL converter inside it… Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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