[chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues with print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues with print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues with print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues
with
print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
Hey all,
I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old repeaters. *sigh*
What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at Python 2?
Leam
On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote:
Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues
with
print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had some incompatible change.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey all,
I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old repeaters. *sigh*
What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at Python 2?
Leam
On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote:
Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues
with
print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it.
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote:
The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had some incompatible change.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey all,
I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old repeaters. *sigh*
What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at Python 2?
Leam
On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote:
Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues
with
print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again.
The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things?
Leam
On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote:
It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it.
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote:
The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had some incompatible change.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey all,
I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old repeaters. *sigh*
What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at Python 2?
Leam
On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote:
Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues
with
print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp
In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
My 2 cents.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel < chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again.
The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things?
Leam
On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote:
It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3
conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it.
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote:
The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from
Python 2
to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also
had
some incompatible change.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey all,
I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm
new-ish to
the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old repeaters. *sigh*
What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at Python 2?
Leam
On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote:
Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall
via
chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Hey Joe,
Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some
Python, if
that helps.
Leam
On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote:
There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not complete, however.
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Leam Hall
via
chirp_devel Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and
issues
with
print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux.
Thanks!
Leam
-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs:
http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs:
http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs:
http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
Martin,
I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me the effort of re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now.
When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge, and a community, here.
Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'd like to.
Leam
On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote:
There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp
In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
My 2 cents.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again. The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things? Leam On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: > It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote: >> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 >> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had >> some incompatible change. >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> chirp_devel >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >> Hey all, >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very >> little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to >> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my >> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old >> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at >> Python 2? >> >> Leam >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >>> >>> Joe Pizzi >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>> chirp_devel >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>> >>> Hey Joe, >>> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if >>> that helps. >>> >>> Leam >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not >>>> complete, however. >>>> >>>> Joe Pizzi >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>>> chirp_devel >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>>> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues >>> with >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Leam >>> >> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> > _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> > Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> -- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>
I agree with everything Martin said. And to clarify from my previous email, when I say I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I just meant I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to put together a todo list. As Martin said, even those who have worked on the Py3 branch aren't entirely clear on the path forward.
I absolutely would like to see a working Py3 branch. I spent a couple weeks of free time reverse engineering some of the settings and memory details for my Yaesu VX-6R that were still missing from Chirp, but haven't made any changes to the code just because it was too hard to get the main (Py2) branch set up for development on Linux. My hope was to help get the Py3 branch up and running well and then make the change there, but that turned out to be hard (see Martin's email). Then I ended up starting a new job shortly after, which left me with much less free time.
(I'd still be interested in helping at some point, but I don't want to make any promises I can't keep right now.)
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Leam Hall via chirp_devel wrote:
Martin,
I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me the effort of re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now.
When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge, and a community, here.
Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'd like to.
Leam
On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote:
There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp
In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
My 2 cents.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again. The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things? Leam On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: > It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote: >> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 >> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had >> some incompatible change. >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> chirp_devel >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >> Hey all, >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very >> little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to >> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my >> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old >> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at >> Python 2? >> >> Leam >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >>> >>> Joe Pizzi >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>> chirp_devel >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>> >>> Hey Joe, >>> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if >>> that helps. >>> >>> Leam >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not >>>> complete, however. >>>> >>>> Joe Pizzi >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>>> chirp_devel >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>>> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues >>> with >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Leam >>> >> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> > _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> > Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> -- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
The clearest direction I've seen is that we need to get the wxPython GUI up-to-par with the GTK GUI.
I know that I've been able to clean up the drivers so that they pass the tests, when using Python 3, so that is pretty straightforward.
I suggest we get the GUI working, so there is much less of an impediment to switching. Note, too, that there are several sight-impaired Chirp users, so we need to ensure we maintain the ability to use a screen reader. I haven't a clue what the status of support wxPython provides for that. I *think* ORCA has been mentioned as the screen reader of preference (judging by user questions).
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com On Behalf Of Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:56 AM To: Dominick C. Pastore chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I agree with everything Martin said. And to clarify from my previous email, when I say I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I just meant I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to put together a todo list. As Martin said, even those who have worked on the Py3 branch aren't entirely clear on the path forward.
I absolutely would like to see a working Py3 branch. I spent a couple weeks of free time reverse engineering some of the settings and memory details for my Yaesu VX-6R that were still missing from Chirp, but haven't made any changes to the code just because it was too hard to get the main (Py2) branch set up for development on Linux. My hope was to help get the Py3 branch up and running well and then make the change there, but that turned out to be hard (see Martin's email). Then I ended up starting a new job shortly after, which left me with much less free time.
(I'd still be interested in helping at some point, but I don't want to make any promises I can't keep right now.)
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Leam Hall via chirp_devel wrote:
Martin,
I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me the effort of re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now.
When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge, and a community, here.
Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'd like to.
Leam
On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote:
There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp
In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
My 2 cents.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again. The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things? Leam On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: > It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote: >> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 >> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had >> some incompatible change. >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> chirp_devel >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >> Hey all, >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very >> little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to >> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my >> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old >> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at >> Python 2? >> >> Leam >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >>> >>> Joe Pizzi >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>> chirp_devel >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>> >>> Hey Joe, >>> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if >>> that helps. >>> >>> Leam >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not >>>> complete, however. >>>> >>>> Joe Pizzi >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>>> chirp_devel >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>>> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues >>> with >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Leam >>> >> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> > _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> > Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> -- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
_______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
Yes, I agree that getting a GUI working properly is an important step. My question is how we deal with things like this:
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2022-April/006737.html
(Be sure to read the entire thread.)
Do we back out the experiment and revert to current Py2 behaviour? Finish the experiment? Do something else? Who makes these kinds of design decisions, other than Dan being the gateway to the repo and what ultimately gets committed? I stopped working on it because it wasn't clear which direction to proceed with.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 9:16 AM Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel < chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
The clearest direction I've seen is that we need to get the wxPython GUI up-to-par with the GTK GUI.
I know that I've been able to clean up the drivers so that they pass the tests, when using Python 3, so that is pretty straightforward.
I suggest we get the GUI working, so there is much less of an impediment to switching. Note, too, that there are several sight-impaired Chirp users, so we need to ensure we maintain the ability to use a screen reader. I haven't a clue what the status of support wxPython provides for that. I *think* ORCA has been mentioned as the screen reader of preference (judging by user questions).
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com < chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> On Behalf Of Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:56 AM To: Dominick C. Pastore chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I agree with everything Martin said. And to clarify from my previous email, when I say I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I just meant I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to put together a todo list. As Martin said, even those who have worked on the Py3 branch aren't entirely clear on the path forward.
I absolutely would like to see a working Py3 branch. I spent a couple weeks of free time reverse engineering some of the settings and memory details for my Yaesu VX-6R that were still missing from Chirp, but haven't made any changes to the code just because it was too hard to get the main (Py2) branch set up for development on Linux. My hope was to help get the Py3 branch up and running well and then make the change there, but that turned out to be hard (see Martin's email). Then I ended up starting a new job shortly after, which left me with much less free time.
(I'd still be interested in helping at some point, but I don't want to make any promises I can't keep right now.)
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Leam Hall via chirp_devel wrote:
Martin,
I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me the effort of re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now.
When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge, and a community, here.
Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'd like
to.
Leam
On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote:
There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They
are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp
In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle
to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are
probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have
contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a
go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
My 2 cents.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <
chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First,using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again.
The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines,is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things?
Leam On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: > It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it.
> > Nick > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_develwrote:
>> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changingfrom Python 2
>> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, becausegtk also had
>> some incompatible change. >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via
>> chirp_devel >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >> Hey all, >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure Iknow very
>> little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday,I'm new-ish to
>> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Prettysure my
>> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to theold
>> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holdingthings at
>> Python 2? >> >> Leam >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >>> >>> Joe Pizzi >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via
>>> chirp_devel >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>> >>> Hey Joe, >>> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can dosome Python, if
>>> that helps. >>> >>> Leam >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors.It is not
>>>> complete, however. >>>> >>>> Joe Pizzi >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via
>>>> chirp_devel >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>>> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:"and issues
>>> with >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Leam >>> >> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <>> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net)
>> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall%3E)
>> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E
>> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
>> >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E
>> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
> _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E
> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall%3E)
_______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E
Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs:
http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
My two cents: Back out the experiment and maintain the current released behavior. The changes are in the repository, so if someone wanted to pick it back up, nothing is lost.
Joe Pizzi
From: Martin Cooper mfncooper@gmail.com Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 12:42 PM To: Joe Pizzi pizzi.joe@gmail.com; chirp-devel chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Yes, I agree that getting a GUI working properly is an important step. My question is how we deal with things like this:
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2022-April/006737.html
(Be sure to read the entire thread.)
Do we back out the experiment and revert to current Py2 behaviour? Finish the experiment? Do something else? Who makes these kinds of design decisions, other than Dan being the gateway to the repo and what ultimately gets committed? I stopped working on it because it wasn't clear which direction to proceed with.
Martin.
KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 9:16 AM Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com > wrote:
The clearest direction I've seen is that we need to get the wxPython GUI up-to-par with the GTK GUI.
I know that I've been able to clean up the drivers so that they pass the tests, when using Python 3, so that is pretty straightforward.
I suggest we get the GUI working, so there is much less of an impediment to switching. Note, too, that there are several sight-impaired Chirp users, so we need to ensure we maintain the ability to use a screen reader. I haven't a clue what the status of support wxPython provides for that. I *think* ORCA has been mentioned as the screen reader of preference (judging by user questions).
Joe Pizzi
-----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com > On Behalf Of Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:56 AM To: Dominick C. Pastore <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com > Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
I agree with everything Martin said. And to clarify from my previous email, when I say I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I just meant I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to put together a todo list. As Martin said, even those who have worked on the Py3 branch aren't entirely clear on the path forward.
I absolutely would like to see a working Py3 branch. I spent a couple weeks of free time reverse engineering some of the settings and memory details for my Yaesu VX-6R that were still missing from Chirp, but haven't made any changes to the code just because it was too hard to get the main (Py2) branch set up for development on Linux. My hope was to help get the Py3 branch up and running well and then make the change there, but that turned out to be hard (see Martin's email). Then I ended up starting a new job shortly after, which left me with much less free time.
(I'd still be interested in helping at some point, but I don't want to make any promises I can't keep right now.)
Nick
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Leam Hall via chirp_devel wrote:
Martin,
I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me the effort of re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now.
When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge, and a community, here.
Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'd like to.
Leam
On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote:
There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp
In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
My 2 cents.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com >> wrote:
From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again. The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things? Leam On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: > It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it. > > Nick > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote: >> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 >> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had >> some incompatible change. >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> chirp_devel >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >> Hey all, >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very >> little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to >> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my >> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old >> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at >> Python 2? >> >> Leam >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >>> >>> Joe Pizzi >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>> chirp_devel >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>> >>> Hey Joe, >>> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if >>> that helps. >>> >>> Leam >>> >>> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not >>>> complete, however. >>>> >>>> Joe Pizzi >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> >> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >>>> chirp_devel >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >>>> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues >>> with >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Leam >>> >> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume> <http://reuel.net/resume>) >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net> <http://domiciwar.net>) >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall> <http://github.com/LeamHall>) >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> > _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> > Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> -- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume> <http://reuel.net/resume>) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net> <http://domiciwar.net>) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall> <http://github.com/LeamHall>) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume http://reuel.net/resume ) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net http://domiciwar.net ) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall http://github.com/LeamHall ) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
_______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
_______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
Would it work to separate the tasks by how they differ in Python 2 and 3? For example, the Exception and print() statements could be made to work in both, right?
The GitHub repo shows a lot of changes between the main and py3 branches. Trying to merge all of those could be difficult, but if you made the compatible changes first, and then maybe added a command line flag for "--use-python3" or similar, you could work in the changes while keeping things Python 2 compatible.
If you isolated the GUI code, you could get the CLI and methods working first, and then add a flag for "--use-wxpython" once the new interface worked.
Does that make sense?
Leam
On 6/24/22 15:22, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote:
My two cents: Back out the experiment and maintain the current released behavior. The changes are in the repository, so if someone wanted to pick it back up, nothing is lost.
Joe Pizzi
*From:* Martin Cooper mfncooper@gmail.com *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2022 12:42 PM *To:* Joe Pizzi pizzi.joe@gmail.com; chirp-devel chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com *Subject:* Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Yes, I agree that getting a GUI working properly is an important step. My question is how we deal with things like this:
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2022-April/006737.html http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2022-April/006737.html
(Be sure to read the entire thread.)
Do we back out the experiment and revert to current Py2 behaviour? Finish the experiment? Do something else? Who makes these kinds of design decisions, other than Dan being the gateway to the repo and what ultimately gets committed? I stopped working on it because it wasn't clear which direction to proceed with.
Martin.
KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 9:16 AM Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
The clearest direction I've seen is that we need to get the wxPython GUI up-to-par with the GTK GUI. I know that I've been able to clean up the drivers so that they pass the tests, when using Python 3, so that is pretty straightforward. I suggest we get the GUI working, so there is much less of an impediment to switching. Note, too, that there are several sight-impaired Chirp users, so we need to ensure we maintain the ability to use a screen reader. I haven't a clue what the status of support wxPython provides for that. I *think* ORCA has been mentioned as the screen reader of preference (judging by user questions). Joe Pizzi -----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:56 AM To: Dominick C. Pastore <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? I agree with everything Martin said. And to clarify from my previous email, when I say I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I just meant I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to put together a todo list. As Martin said, even those who have worked on the Py3 branch aren't entirely clear on the path forward. I absolutely would like to see a working Py3 branch. I spent a couple weeks of free time reverse engineering some of the settings and memory details for my Yaesu VX-6R that were still missing from Chirp, but haven't made any changes to the code just because it was too hard to get the main (Py2) branch set up for development on Linux. My hope was to help get the Py3 branch up and running well and then make the change there, but that turned out to be hard (see Martin's email). Then I ended up starting a new job shortly after, which left me with much less free time. (I'd still be interested in helping at some point, but I don't want to make any promises I can't keep right now.) Nick On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Leam Hall via chirp_devel wrote: > Martin, > > I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me the effort of > re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now. > > When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did > consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten > seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge, and a > community, here. > > Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'd like to. > > Leam > > > On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote: >> There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo. (They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees. >> >> https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp <https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp> <https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp <https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp>> >> >> In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significant obstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell). >> >> Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think there are probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree. >> >> You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us have contemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2. >> >> Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who've had a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key. >> >> My 2 cents. >> >> Martin. >> KD6YAM >> >> On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>>> wrote: >> >> From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions. First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again. >> >> The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wrong lines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things? >> >> Leam >> >> On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: >> > It seems like we get a question about the status of the Python 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it. >> > >> > Nick >> > >> > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote: >> >> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is it changing from Python 2 >> >> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython, because gtk also had >> >> some incompatible change. >> >> >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> >> chirp_devel >> >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >> >> >> Hey all, >> >> >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm pretty sure I know very >> >> little. It looks like the project is still active, and folks are >> >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radio yesterday, I'm new-ish to >> >> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in. Pretty sure my >> >> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country, to the old >> >> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What is holding things at >> >> Python 2? >> >> >> >> Leam >> >> >> >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >> >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >> >>> >> >>> Joe Pizzi >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> >>> chirp_devel >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >> >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >>> >> >>> Hey Joe, >> >>> >> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I can do some Python, if >> >>> that helps. >> >>> >> >>> Leam >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >> >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds of errors. It is not >> >>>> complete, however. >> >>>> >> >>>> Joe Pizzi >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via >> >>>> chirp_devel >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >> >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? >> >>>> >> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "except Exception, e:" and issues >> >>> with >> >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks! >> >>>> >> >>>> Leam >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume> <http://reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>>) >> >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net> <http://domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>>) >> >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall> <http://github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>>) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> chirp_devel mailing list >> >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel>> >> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> chirp_devel mailing list >> >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel>> >> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > chirp_devel mailing list >> > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel>> >> > Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>> >> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume> <http://reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>>) >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net> <http://domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>>) >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall> <http://github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>>) >> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> >> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel>> >> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>> >> > > -- > Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume>) > Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) > General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall>) > _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> > http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> > Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers> _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers <http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers>
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
The py3 branch is maintained in such a way as to run on both Python 2 and Python 3. You'll see a number of places where the 'six' package is used to help with that. That work is already done, with the possible exception of a few of the drivers.
The GUI is already separate from the CLI and the core code. In fact, the CLI tool (chirpc) works fine in the py3 branch. I've used it to program one of my radios, and that's a live mode radio. It's the GUI behaviour that's not all there.
I believe that the trees are actually largely, if not completely, parallel in terms of the core code. The trees look very different, but changes have been going into both trees for a while now. So the remaining work really is almost all in the wxPython code.
Martin. KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 1:38 PM Leam Hall via chirp_devel < chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
Would it work to separate the tasks by how they differ in Python 2 and 3? For example, the Exception and print() statements could be made to work in both, right?
The GitHub repo shows a lot of changes between the main and py3 branches. Trying to merge all of those could be difficult, but if you made the compatible changes first, and then maybe added a command line flag for "--use-python3" or similar, you could work in the changes while keeping things Python 2 compatible.
If you isolated the GUI code, you could get the CLI and methods working first, and then add a flag for "--use-wxpython" once the new interface worked.
Does that make sense?
Leam
On 6/24/22 15:22, Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel wrote:
My two cents: Back out the experiment and maintain the current released
behavior. The changes are in the repository, so if someone wanted to pick it back up, nothing is lost.
Joe Pizzi
*From:* Martin Cooper mfncooper@gmail.com *Sent:* Friday, June 24, 2022 12:42 PM *To:* Joe Pizzi pizzi.joe@gmail.com; chirp-devel <
chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
*Subject:* Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3?
Yes, I agree that getting a GUI working properly is an important step.
My question is how we deal with things like this:
http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2022-April/006737.html < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/pipermail/chirp_devel/2022-April/006737.html
(Be sure to read the entire thread.)
Do we back out the experiment and revert to current Py2 behaviour?
Finish the experiment? Do something else? Who makes these kinds of design decisions, other than Dan being the gateway to the repo and what ultimately gets committed? I stopped working on it because it wasn't clear which direction to proceed with.
Martin.
KD6YAM
On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 9:16 AM Joe Pizzi via chirp_devel <
chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
The clearest direction I've seen is that we need to get the wxPythonGUI up-to-par with the GTK GUI.
I know that I've been able to clean up the drivers so that they passthe tests, when using Python 3, so that is pretty straightforward.
I suggest we get the GUI working, so there is much less of animpediment to switching. Note, too, that there are several sight-impaired Chirp users, so we need to ensure we maintain the ability to use a screen reader. I haven't a clue what the status of support wxPython provides for that. I *think* ORCA has been mentioned as the screen reader of preference (judging by user questions).
Joe Pizzi -----Original Message----- From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> < chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> On Behalf Of Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:56 AM To: Dominick C. Pastore <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp on Python 3? I agree with everything Martin said. And to clarify from my previousemail, when I say I'm not sure if it would be worth it, I just meant I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to put together a todo list. As Martin said, even those who have worked on the Py3 branch aren't entirely clear on the path forward.
I absolutely would like to see a working Py3 branch. I spent acouple weeks of free time reverse engineering some of the settings and memory details for my Yaesu VX-6R that were still missing from Chirp, but haven't made any changes to the code just because it was too hard to get the main (Py2) branch set up for development on Linux. My hope was to help get the Py3 branch up and running well and then make the change there, but that turned out to be hard (see Martin's email). Then I ended up starting a new job shortly after, which left me with much less free time.
(I'd still be interested in helping at some point, but I don't wantto make any promises I can't keep right now.)
Nick On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 11:42 AM, Leam Hall via chirp_devel wrote: > Martin, > > I appreciate the thoughtful response! You also saved me theeffort of
> re-learning Mercurial, I've cloned the Github repo now. > > When I mentioned "new things", I was thinking of Python 3. I did > consider porting or forking, but that thought lasted less than ten > seconds. It was already obvious that there's a body of knowledge,and a
> community, here. > > Let me take a look and see what comes to mind. If I can help, I'dlike to.
> > Leam > > > On 6/24/22 10:09, Martin Cooper wrote: >> There is a GitHub repo that is parallel to the Mercurial repo.(They are mirrors of each other.) Several of us have contributed via that repo, to both Python 2 and Python 3 trees.
>> >> https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp <https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp><https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp https://github.com/kk7ds/chirp>
>> >> In my opinion, the lack of direction is the most significantobstacle to making further progress. A few of us have made contributions to the py3 tree, but there are places in which the originally intended direction is unclear. One example is how live mode radios should work. An experiment was initiated in the code base, but is incomplete, and the author is unclear as to whether it is the right path. Someone would need to step up and take the reins of a design spec to steer the project. That's a significant effort, and I don't think anyone has been ready to do that (including Chirp's creator, as far as I can tell).
>> >> Once a direction is set, and a design is in place, I think thereare probably enough of us who could finish what's been started. However, right now, things are rather piecemeal with respect to contributions to the py3 tree.
>> >> You mentioned building new things. I suspect a number of us havecontemplated that. However, there is an enormous amount of work and knowledge built into the Chirp codebase, and especially into the drivers for the huge number of supported radios. Any "new things" that might take over from Chirp would either need to build all of that again from scratch (not practical) or essentially adopt the Chirp driver design and "just" build a new UI over that. Which, in essence, is what the py3 tree is, with a wxPython GUI replacing what's there in Python 2.
>> >> Nick's idea of a to-do list is a good one, if those of us who'vehad a go with the py3 tree each chip in our findings and build up a collective set of thoughts. However, my feeling is that we really need some input from Dan to help with direction, and an expression of his thoughts and ideas of where Chirp should be going and how it might get there. Any contributions we make need to go through Dan to get into the main Chirp repo (as opposed to a fork), so his input really is key.
>> >> My 2 cents. >> >> Martin. >> KD6YAM >> >> On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 7:43 AM Leam Hall via chirp_devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>> wrote:
>> >> From a "new guy" perspective, I see two major questions.First, using mercurial is a barrier since a lot of developers are on GitHub or GitLab. The Chirp Developer page has a lot of info, so that should be doable. I'm not sure if the Gmail from Mercurial instructions are up to date, since Gmail has borked...err...changed their stuff yet again.
>> >> The other question, and maybe I'm reading between the wronglines, is that there's a sense of "meh". Python 3 has been out for a while; Joe mentioned the lack of direction, Nick isn't confident that it's worth the effort to document the needs. What's the general feeling about continuing as is or building to new things?
>> >> Leam >> >> On 6/24/22 09:33, Dominick C. Pastore via chirp_devel wrote: >> > It seems like we get a question about the status of thePython 3 conversion and what work is left every month or two. I wonder if it would be useful to put together some sort of Py3 TODO list, both for people who are curious and for people who want to help but don't know where it's needed. I'm not sure how much work that would be to put together, or if it would be worth it.
>> > >> > Nick >> > >> > On Fri, Jun 24, 2022, at 9:10 AM, Joe Pizzi viachirp_devel wrote:
>> >> The challenge, in my opinion, is that not only is itchanging from Python 2
>> >> to Python 3, but it is changing from gtk to wxPython,because gtk also had
>> >> some incompatible change. >> >> >> >> Joe Pizzi >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.commailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via
>> >> chirp_devel >> >> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:39 AM >> >> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp onPython 3?
>> >> >> >> Hey all, >> >> >> >> I don't mean to sound like a know it all; I'm prettysure I know very
>> >> little. It looks like the project is still active, andfolks are
>> >> contributing. A local used it to load up my radioyesterday, I'm new-ish to
>> >> the area and still had the old repeaters programmed in.Pretty sure my
>> >> little Baofeng can't reach half way across the country,to the old
>> >> repeaters. *sigh* >> >> >> >> What's the challenge with moving to Python 3? What isholding things at
>> >> Python 2? >> >> >> >> Leam >> >> >> >> >> >> On 6/23/22 20:44, Joe Pizzi wrote: >> >>> Lack of time, focus, direction. At least on my part. >> >>> >> >>> Joe Pizzi >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.commailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via
>> >>> chirp_devel >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:08 PM >> >>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp onPython 3?
>> >>> >> >>> Hey Joe, >> >>> >> >>> Is the "not complete" due to lack of time, or...? I cando some Python, if
>> >>> that helps. >> >>> >> >>> Leam >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 6/23/22 19:07, Joe Pizzi wrote: >> >>>> There is a python 3 branch that fixes those kinds oferrors. It is not
>> >>>> complete, however. >> >>>> >> >>>> Joe Pizzi >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.commailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >>>> <chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel-bounces@intrepid.danplanet.com>> On Behalf Of Leam Hall via
>> >>>> chirp_devel >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 5:50 AM >> >>>> To: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >>>> Subject: [chirp_devel] Is anyone running chirp onPython 3?
>> >>>> >> >>>> I'm getting a lot of syntax errors on "exceptException, e:" and issues
>> >>> with >> >>>> print statements. Running Python 3.10 on Void Linux. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks! >> >>>> >> >>>> Leam >> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume%3E <http://reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume
)
>> >> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net%3E <http://domiciwar.net http://domiciwar.net>)
>> >> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall%3E <http://github.com/LeamHall < http://github.com/LeamHall%3E%3E)
>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> chirp_devel mailing list >> >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >>http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E%3E
>> >> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E%3E
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> chirp_devel mailing list >> >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >>http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E%3E
>> >> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E%3E
>> > _______________________________________________ >> > chirp_devel mailing list >> > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> >http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E%3E
>> > Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E%3E
>> >> -- >> Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume%3E <http://reuel.net/resume <http://reuel.net/resume
)
>> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net%3E <http://domiciwar.net http://domiciwar.net>)
>> General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall%3E <http://github.com/LeamHall < http://github.com/LeamHall%3E%3E)
>> _______________________________________________ >> chirp_devel mailing list >> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> <mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com mailto: chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
>> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel < http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E%3E
>> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E%3E
>> > > -- > Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume <> Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net <http://domiciwar.net>) > General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall <http://github.com/LeamHall%3E)
> _______________________________________________ > chirp_devel mailing list > chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel <http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel%3E
> Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
_______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
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Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
_______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com <mailto:chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
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Developer docs:http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers < http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers%3E
chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs:
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-- Automation Engineer (reuel.net/resume) Scribe: The Domici War (domiciwar.net) General Ne'er-do-well (github.com/LeamHall) _______________________________________________ chirp_devel mailing list chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
participants (4)
-
Dominick C. Pastore -
Joe Pizzi -
Leam Hall -
Martin Cooper