Read and write is what Wouxun CPS uses.... but at least adding 
"To radio " or "From Radio"   would help clarify direction of transfer for those less radio/computer literate.   

As upload and download are dependent on your perspective.

On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:02 PM <chirp_devel-request@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)
   2. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Matthew Poletiek)
   3. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (David Boucha)
   4. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)
   5. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Jim Unroe)
   6. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Dan Smith)
   7. Re: Thoughts on upload/download terminology (Martin Cooper)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 15:34:14 -0800
From: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>
Subject: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: chirp devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <021DF205-CBA7-4BE1-AC1B-F41499FEACB2@danplanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

Hi all,

Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload" and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are too vague.

Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.

https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301

I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other software.

--Dan

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:22:35 -0600
From: Matthew Poletiek <matthew.poletiek@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>,   chirp devel
        <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID:
        <CAJhSV8uTqcoAk6+HDMA5P789t2mw547CETRiqSHSdot6ze6wcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Probably thinking about it too hard myself, but here are some thoughts.

Upload and download infer a temporary, potentially unstable connection or a
remote/temporary target.

Read and write infer something less remote and much more stable and
consistent.

I think upload and download make the most sense for this use case
considering protocols in use and the temporary connection or potentially
unstable one.

Read and write might set expectations too high for some users.

2cents.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 17:34 Dan Smith via chirp_devel <
chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are
> too vague.
>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
>
> https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other
> software.
>
> --Dan
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_devel mailing list
> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel
> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
>
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:49:05 -0700
From: David Boucha <boucha@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>,
        chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com
Message-ID:
        <CAOWDhxkwwVFsR5EYCHiQxyJbR8R3O_878uZig0mJA8T50OFF8A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I'm very accustomed to upload and download terminology, but I've always
felt there's a bit of vagueness or ambiguity to those terms.

I think switching to read and write technology makes a ton of sense. It's
very clear and explicit. Zero chance of confusion. I love it. It won't be a
hard change for users because it makes so much sense.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel <
chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are
> too vague.
>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
>
> https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other
> software.
>
> --Dan
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_devel mailing list
> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel
> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
>
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:00:31 -0800
From: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: chirp devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <A8C97CFD-D67E-43A1-8FBD-43215693A599@danplanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

> Probably thinking about it too hard myself, but here are some thoughts.
>
> Upload and download infer a temporary, potentially unstable connection or a remote/temporary target.
>
> Read and write infer something less remote and much more stable and consistent.
>
> I think upload and download make the most sense for this use case considering protocols in use and the temporary connection or potentially unstable one.
>
> Read and write might set expectations too high for some users.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say, from one over-thinker to another, I think you over-thought that real good :)

Looking at several other packages, here's what I find:

KC8UNJ Commander: Read/Write
Kenwood MCP: Read/Write
Kenwood Commercial: Read/Write
Icom CS: Read/Write
Yaesu ADMS: Get/Send
CHIRP-legacy: Download/Upload

Sure seems like read/write is the more common thing. "Because Yaesu did it" is never a good reason, IMHO, so that's an easy outlier.

I think that means read/write would put us on par with most everything else. Anyone else have data points or opinions? Maybe some non-Americans with different connotations for those words?

--Dan

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:14:07 -0500
From: Jim Unroe <rock.unroe@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>,
        chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com
Message-ID:
        <CADnO8U6jJdnvqMrzw4hHqgoF4G5hX0QyH89taB6MRgJSU83Usg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 6:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel
<chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload" and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are too vague.
>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
>
> https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other software.
>
> --Dan

For as long as I have been using CHIRP, I have had to help many users
that get the download/upload terminology reversed. To be clearer it
should at least include TO/FROM. For example "Upload TO radio" or "TO
Radio" with the corresponding "Download FROM radio" or "FROM radio".

Most factory software that I have used will have a bubble pop up that
just says "read" or "wright" depending on which way the cloning
operation is going. If "Read" and "Write" is decided upon, it might
also be worth changing the hotkeys to "Ctrl-R" and "Ctrl-W".

Jim KC9HI


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:20:03 -0800
From: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: chirp devel <chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com>
Message-ID: <ED25026B-382F-4549-88A9-E77AC1376E53@danplanet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

> For as long as I have been using CHIRP, I have had to help many users
> that get the download/upload terminology reversed. To be clearer it
> should at least include TO/FROM. For example "Upload TO radio" or "TO
> Radio" with the corresponding "Download FROM radio" or "FROM radio".
>
> Most factory software that I have used will have a bubble pop up that
> just says "read" or "wright" depending on which way the cloning
> operation is going. If "Read" and "Write" is decided upon, it might
> also be worth changing the hotkeys to "Ctrl-R" and "Ctrl-W".

OMG, I didn't think about the crazy hotkey muscle memory I'm going to have to break if we change ;)

Jim, in your best politician voice, you didn't actually answer the question, but it sounds like you see more real-world confusion over upload/download than read/write. So I'm going to put down "the senator from the midwest prefers read/write" unless you move to strike... :)

--Dan

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 17:53:03 -0800
From: Martin Cooper <mfncooper@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chirp_devel] Thoughts on upload/download terminology
To: Dan Smith <dsmith@danplanet.com>,
        chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com
Message-ID:
        <CAGEtHi+MB1w21jA9WaB5OkUemiJH2k58W6wjn10NtpJONT5T-g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I like upload / download, because it's consistent with so many other tools,
though not necessarily radio-related tools. I use FileZilla a lot, so I use
upload / download there. Cloud storage systems like iCloud and Google Drive
talk about upload and download. People download photos from their phones to
their computers. I think people are used to upload meaning "send from here
to other place / device" and download meaning "bring to my computer from
other place / device". I don't think radios need to be different from those
common usage patterns.

Martin.
KD6YAM

On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 3:34 PM Dan Smith via chirp_devel <
chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Someone just filed a bug about the fact that CHIRP-next uses only "upload"
> and "download" in the Radio menu. This wasn't intentional, but is a
> departure from what it used to be, which is "Upload TO radio" and "Download
> FROM radio". Changing that completely now *might* catch some users
> off-guard, but I think he's probably right that the single-word options are
> too vague.
>
> Any strong opinions on moving from upload/download (to/from radio), to
> "Read from Radio" and "Write to Radio"? Even "Read" and "Write" might be
> okay, given they're under the "Radio" menu.
>
> https://chirp.danplanet.com/issues/10303?next_issue_id=10301
>
> I initially knee-jerked in my usual hates-change way to moving to
> read/write but perhaps that would be better, and does (I think) match other
> software.
>
> --Dan
> _______________________________________________
> chirp_devel mailing list
> chirp_devel@intrepid.danplanet.com
> http://intrepid.danplanet.com/mailman/listinfo/chirp_devel
> Developer docs: http://chirp.danplanet.com/projects/chirp/wiki/Developers
>
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End of chirp_devel Digest, Vol 141, Issue 10
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